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Im curious why you draw that conclusion, and also what things were like when you were in school. Did you get in any fights? Were fights frequent in your schoo

Im curious why you draw that conclusion, and also what things were like when you were in school. Did you get in any fights? Were fights frequent in your school. The reason I ask is that I think I'm a bit older than the average HN reader (pushing 40). When I went to school, fights were certainly not encouraged, but the occasional lunchtime or after-school fight was not at all unusual. And there was definitely bullying. It wasn't any kind of indoctrination that kept their victims from fighting back. It was pure and simple fear! Most of the bullies were either physically larger than their victims, or just had a way of projecting an aggressive, intimidating presence that had most of the other kids reluctant to throw down with them. Now I agree that a good punch was (and probably still is) a good individual tactic for getting a bully to leave you alone. What I disagree with is what I believe is your assertion that it's some kind of recent policy change that makes bullying possible or causes it to flourish in some way. A policy of allowing or even encouraging physical violence isn't going to end or discourage bullying. Human behavior isn't that simple, real world solutions aren't that black and white. Bullying didn't suddenly "spring" into existence when schools started earnestly preventing violence. Bullying has existed longer than human history. You see it in all human societies, and all even in animals.

Legion 16y ago
Bullying is, according to the media, "on the rise". You only need to a simple Google search to find an army of articles dated 2010 that make this claim. Is it true? It's my outsider's perception that there is some truth to it. It's my perception as the husband of a schoolteacher that it is. But my eyes cannot gaze upon all the schools in the country. However, the combination of the anecdotal evidence of my wife's school combined with the national media suggests to me that I am not far off. (Even though I recognize the media's fondness of latching onto a story that is guaranteed to draw attention) Nowhere did I state that this trend has caused bullying. I am only saying that it has affected bullying. I am also not necessarily putting a timeline on when things changed. I simply don't have the data for that. But I am looking at schools as they look in 2010 and I am seeing a lot of examples/stories of bullies operating with impunity. And it seems at least to be much more so than in my school days. The one thing I can state as an absolute fact is that bullying is an extremely hot topic among teachers and school boards. I have to think that there is more than just bully status quo behind that.
- TallGuyShort 16y ago
  I'm not sure that it's on the rise. I haven't studied hard data on the issue enough to really make a statement like this, but personally I suspect that other changes in society have left kids less able to deal with bullying, and that's why it's prominence in the media is on the rise. There are so many diagnoses of mental and emotional illnesses, medications to fix them, etc... I think the prominence of things like this just teaches kids that it's not their problem, it's just a "syndrome" they suffer from. While some of it may be true, we've lost a sense of how to "deal with it". I think that spills over into how people deal with bullying. They can't handle the fact that they're being bullied, and that ends up pushing them in the direction of suicide, which I think is horrible. (I mean no disrespect to the families of those who have recently been through this). I don't think bullying has gone up, but I think children are now being raised in an environment where they haven't learned to deal with their problems head on. I was bullied a ton as a kid, and I was always told to "tell and adult", or just ignore it, but this guy is right - there are some bullies who want to hurt you, and you ignoring it or telling and adult just makes them want to hurt you even more. I learned to change the way I did some things so as not to attract the attention of bullies, etc... and solve some problems non-violently, but there absolutely was a time when I had to have enough of a back-bone to make a solid decision about when enough was enough. That fixed the remaining problems - but I still look back at that as an experience I could have solved much sooner if I had just been smarter about it. The bullies shouldn't have done what they did, but it was my problem and I needed to deal with it.
anamax 16y ago
> Bullying didn't suddenly "spring" into existence when schools started earnestly preventing violence. He's not claiming otherwise. He's explaining how he's going to keep his kid from being bullied. > schools started earnestly preventing violence Assumes facts not in evidence..... (A policy isn't a result.) > What I disagree with is what I believe is your assertion that it's some kind of recent policy change that makes bullying possible or causes it to flourish in some way. The policy change is that bully's victims will be punished if they resist? It lets bullies say "go along or the school will come down on you". Why do you think that such a change doesn't encourage bullies? (The policy change doesn't affect the bully's punishment.) Yes, there were fights before, but since there are still fights.... (Under the old scheme, one party might not have been punished for a fight. Under the new scheme, both parties are, but since the instigator wasn't deterred by the threat of being punished in the past, it's unclear why you think that the changed policy, which mandates punishment for someone else, would deter the instigator.)
vidarh 16y ago
I'm 35, and was frequently bullied at school. The one thing they took notice of was when I fought back. In one case I went to the hospital to get checked out with a black eye and several other marks, and severely bruised lips after going up against an older boy that was a head taller than me. But he got bruised badly too, and had the humiliation of being made by his parents to come and apologize, and he stayed clear of me for months afterwards. It was worth it to me.

Legion 16y ago

Bullying is, according to the media, "on the rise". You only need to a simple Google search to find an army of articles dated 2010 that make this claim. Is it true? It's my outsider's perception that there is some truth to it. It's my perception as the husband of a schoolteacher that it is. But my eyes cannot gaze upon all the schools in the country. However, the combination of the anecdotal evidence of my wife's school combined with the national media suggests to me that I am not far off. (Even though I recognize the media's fondness of latching onto a story that is guaranteed to draw attention) Nowhere did I state that this trend has caused bullying. I am only saying that it has affected bullying. I am also not necessarily putting a timeline on when things changed. I simply don't have the data for that. But I am looking at schools as they look in 2010 and I am seeing a lot of examples/stories of bullies operating with impunity. And it seems at least to be much more so than in my school days. The one thing I can state as an absolute fact is that bullying is an extremely hot topic among teachers and school boards. I have to think that there is more than just bully status quo behind that.

TallGuyShort 16y ago
I'm not sure that it's on the rise. I haven't studied hard data on the issue enough to really make a statement like this, but personally I suspect that other changes in society have left kids less able to deal with bullying, and that's why it's prominence in the media is on the rise. There are so many diagnoses of mental and emotional illnesses, medications to fix them, etc... I think the prominence of things like this just teaches kids that it's not their problem, it's just a "syndrome" they suffer from. While some of it may be true, we've lost a sense of how to "deal with it". I think that spills over into how people deal with bullying. They can't handle the fact that they're being bullied, and that ends up pushing them in the direction of suicide, which I think is horrible. (I mean no disrespect to the families of those who have recently been through this). I don't think bullying has gone up, but I think children are now being raised in an environment where they haven't learned to deal with their problems head on. I was bullied a ton as a kid, and I was always told to "tell and adult", or just ignore it, but this guy is right - there are some bullies who want to hurt you, and you ignoring it or telling and adult just makes them want to hurt you even more. I learned to change the way I did some things so as not to attract the attention of bullies, etc... and solve some problems non-violently, but there absolutely was a time when I had to have enough of a back-bone to make a solid decision about when enough was enough. That fixed the remaining problems - but I still look back at that as an experience I could have solved much sooner if I had just been smarter about it. The bullies shouldn't have done what they did, but it was my problem and I needed to deal with it.

anamax 16y ago

> Bullying didn't suddenly "spring" into existence when schools started earnestly preventing violence. He's not claiming otherwise. He's explaining how he's going to keep his kid from being bullied. > schools started earnestly preventing violence Assumes facts not in evidence..... (A policy isn't a result.) > What I disagree with is what I believe is your assertion that it's some kind of recent policy change that makes bullying possible or causes it to flourish in some way. The policy change is that bully's victims will be punished if they resist? It lets bullies say "go along or the school will come down on you". Why do you think that such a change doesn't encourage bullies? (The policy change doesn't affect the bully's punishment.) Yes, there were fights before, but since there are still fights.... (Under the old scheme, one party might not have been punished for a fight. Under the new scheme, both parties are, but since the instigator wasn't deterred by the threat of being punished in the past, it's unclear why you think that the changed policy, which mandates punishment for someone else, would deter the instigator.)

vidarh 16y ago

I'm 35, and was frequently bullied at school. The one thing they took notice of was when I fought back. In one case I went to the hospital to get checked out with a black eye and several other marks, and severely bruised lips after going up against an older boy that was a head taller than me. But he got bruised badly too, and had the humiliation of being made by his parents to come and apologize, and he stayed clear of me for months afterwards. It was worth it to me.