4 ms·

It looks like these are all monospaced fonts. I realize that most programmers use monospaced fonts, but I personally find proportional fonts to be much more re

It looks like these are all monospaced fonts. I realize that most programmers use monospaced fonts, but I personally find proportional fonts to be much more readable and pleasing to my eye. I would be really interested in a similar font comparison that included proportional fonts that are suitable for programming. Right now my favorite is Trebuchet MS. This renders beautifully on the high-DPI displays I use, and it has easily-distinguished glyphs for the common mistakables like Il|. Its tilde is not very good though, so I used a font editor to swap in a better one. But I'm always interested to hear about other options! When I do have to use a monospaced font (e.g. in a terminal window), Liberation Mono is my favorite. Definitely worth a look if you like monospaced fonts.

1kGarand 8y ago
Verdana used to be my go to proportional font when I was doing Java. Helped with long variable names and long horizontal lines. My buddies thought I was nuts, but I found it very legible. These days my eyes are dimming, so I dislike skinny fonts. Now I use DejaVu Sans Mono in _bold_ exclusively. Every now and then when HN does a programming font post, I try out different ones, but I always end up going back to DejaVu Sans Mono Bold.
- Stratoscope 8y ago
  Like you, I'm not as young as I used to be. So I'm with you on the skinny fonts! One of my biggest pet peeves is web designers who think font-weight: 300; is a good idea. You might take a look at Trebuchet MS. One thing I like about it is that the strokes are nice and fat. At least on my high-DPI displays; haven't checked on a low or medium DPI display.
- hmottestad 8y ago
  +1 for Verdana. Been using it for 3 years now. Couldn't be happier.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    For those who like Verdana, check this out. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/verdana-pro/9n8d67vhhdc2 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/verdana-pro/9n8d67vhhdc2 Coincidentally, I wonder if the license allows it to be downloaded and installed on other OSes, like the old "Microsoft core fonts" package that included Verdana.
    - duckerude 8y ago
      >Coincidentally, I wonder if the license allows it to be downloaded and installed on other OSes, like the old "Microsoft core fonts" package that included Verdana. It doesn't look like it. The Microsoft core fonts EULA (https://web.archive.org/web/20091208063245/http://www.microsoft.com/typography/fontpack/eula.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20091208063245/http://www.micros...) says things like: > You may install and use an unlimited number of copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT. > You may reproduce and distribute an unlimited number of copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT; provided that [they're verbatim, include the EULA, aren't distributed for profit] > You may not rename, edit or create any derivative works from the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, other than subsetting when embedding them in documents. > You may permanently transfer all of your rights under this EULA, provided the recipient agrees to the terms of this EULA. So you can distribute and install them. You have to take some care, but you don't need to involve Microsoft, and you're not bound to the systems they were originally intended for. The Verdana Pro license (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/#STANDARDAPPLICATIONLICENSETERMS https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/#STANDARDA...) says things like: > You may install and use the application on Windows devices or Xbox consoles [...] > [You may not:] Work around any technical limitations in the application. So it's very limited.
  - toyg 8y ago
    Man, Verdana gives me flashbacks of late-'90s messing with html. If it hits the typical 20-years fashion rota and gets cool again, I'll feel really old. It's the flannel shirt of fonts.
- int_19h 8y ago
  If you like bold fonts, try Terminus bold at around 16pt. Also, the old VGA font is surprisingly nice and legible. Can be had here: https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/ https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/
valtism 8y ago
I'm curious to know how you started using proportional fonts for coding. All of the tooling for writing code defaults to monospace, so what started you coding in a different style?
- edejong 8y ago
  For me it was efficiency of reading. It is proven that proportional, serif fonts read significantly faster (17%) [1] or [2] (6.1%). Also, in my opinion, scanning is much faster. This makes sense: our eye uses the top and bottom of words to ‘key’ the word. Use proportional and you add information to this system. [1] https://blog.codinghorror.com/comparing-font-legibility/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/comparing-font-legibility/ [2] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/001872088302500303 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/001872088302500... (edit: add references to research)
- Stratoscope 8y ago
  Thank you for your curiosity! My other comment may answer the "how I started" question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18958335 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18958335 But one thing I'm wondering about: > All of the tooling for writing code defaults to monospace... Do you have an example of such tooling? One that I'm familiar with is Google's coding standards, which are obsessed with lining things up in ways that only work in monospaced fonts. Is that the kind of thing you're thinking of, or something else? Thanks!
- int_19h 8y ago
  One of the early proponents of using proportional fonts for code was Bjarne Stroustroup - his "The C++ Programming Language" books all do that, and he briefly explains it in the intro as being more readable, and urges the readers to give it a go. I wasn't convinced, personally, but the idea was already around then.
  - augustk 8y ago
    Using a proportional font is also common (recommended) when programming in Bertrand Meyer's Eiffel or Niklaus Wirth's Oberon.
ww520 8y ago
Curious. How do you line things up?
- hmottestad 8y ago
  Not OP, but I use Verdana in Java. Most things line up perfectly fine i IntelliJ. I have had someone on my team with an itch for lining up variable assignment. That was the one thing that looked off. int abc = 3 int defg = 4 int bigTestVaribale = 6
  - edejong 8y ago
    (Another proportional font user) These cause problems in diffs as well. Change bigTestVarible to bigTestVAriable and all three lines show as changed. Nevertheless, for teams that insist, the auto code formatter makes it look ‘nice’ for them. Personally, I think vertical alignment apart from indentation is a mistake for more than these reasons. It implies a structure where there is none.
- Stratoscope 8y ago
  > Curious. How do you line things up? I don't! :-) I spent many years lining things up. I would write code like this: foobar(firstArg, secondArg, thirdArg); (For the sake of discussion, assume that those arguments were too long to just put it all on one line, so you would naturally want to use multiple lines.) Then when I realized that 'foobar' wasn't such a good name, I had to re-align all the code: doTheRealThing(firstArg, secondArg, thirdArg); At some point, maybe 20 years ago, I got really tired of this. So I thought, "what if I just use indentation instead of trying to line things up in columns?" Which led to this: foobar( firstArg, secondArg, thirdArg ); And when I renamed the function, I didn't have to move everything around any more: doTheRealThing( firstArg, secondArg, thirdArg ); Instead of every line changing, only one line changed. [1] After I adopted this style, I noticed that the code editor I was using at the time supported proportional fonts, so I got curious and tried one - I think it was Verdana. And sure enough, the code was just as readable as it was before. If you don't line things up in columns but instead just use indentation, then a proportional font works just as well as monospaced. [1] Some will say "just ignore whitespace in your VCS diffs, and this won't be a problem." But I want to know about whitespace changes, just like I want to know about any other change.
edejong 8y ago
Verdana and Optima are my go to fonts. Have used proportional fonts since 2010, with close to no problems, save the occasional newbie who aligns assignments or types.
pmontra 8y ago
I also use proportional fonts. No problem with coworkers in either JavaScript, Ruby, Python, Elixir. I'm using DejaVu Sans Book on Ubuntu in Emacs. People are always puzzled when they learn I'm not using a monospaced font, think it's impossible but agree that it's much more readable. Then keep using their monospaced fonts. Actually, nobody likes to read books or blog posts printed with monospaced fonts, right? There is no reason to do it with code. Alignment like this short = 1 much_longer = 2 is lost but it's not really important. I think it's also against Python's style guide and for sure it doesn't survive the Elixir formatter (I checked this now.)

1kGarand 8y ago

Verdana used to be my go to proportional font when I was doing Java. Helped with long variable names and long horizontal lines. My buddies thought I was nuts, but I found it very legible. These days my eyes are dimming, so I dislike skinny fonts. Now I use DejaVu Sans Mono in _bold_ exclusively. Every now and then when HN does a programming font post, I try out different ones, but I always end up going back to DejaVu Sans Mono Bold.

Stratoscope 8y ago
Like you, I'm not as young as I used to be. So I'm with you on the skinny fonts! One of my biggest pet peeves is web designers who think font-weight: 300; is a good idea. You might take a look at Trebuchet MS. One thing I like about it is that the strokes are nice and fat. At least on my high-DPI displays; haven't checked on a low or medium DPI display.
hmottestad 8y ago
+1 for Verdana. Been using it for 3 years now. Couldn't be happier.
- int_19h 8y ago
  For those who like Verdana, check this out. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/verdana-pro/9n8d67vhhdc2 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/verdana-pro/9n8d67vhhdc2 Coincidentally, I wonder if the license allows it to be downloaded and installed on other OSes, like the old "Microsoft core fonts" package that included Verdana.
  - duckerude 8y ago
    >Coincidentally, I wonder if the license allows it to be downloaded and installed on other OSes, like the old "Microsoft core fonts" package that included Verdana. It doesn't look like it. The Microsoft core fonts EULA (https://web.archive.org/web/20091208063245/http://www.microsoft.com/typography/fontpack/eula.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20091208063245/http://www.micros...) says things like: > You may install and use an unlimited number of copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT. > You may reproduce and distribute an unlimited number of copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT; provided that [they're verbatim, include the EULA, aren't distributed for profit] > You may not rename, edit or create any derivative works from the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, other than subsetting when embedding them in documents. > You may permanently transfer all of your rights under this EULA, provided the recipient agrees to the terms of this EULA. So you can distribute and install them. You have to take some care, but you don't need to involve Microsoft, and you're not bound to the systems they were originally intended for. The Verdana Pro license (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/#STANDARDAPPLICATIONLICENSETERMS https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/#STANDARDA...) says things like: > You may install and use the application on Windows devices or Xbox consoles [...] > [You may not:] Work around any technical limitations in the application. So it's very limited.
- toyg 8y ago
  Man, Verdana gives me flashbacks of late-'90s messing with html. If it hits the typical 20-years fashion rota and gets cool again, I'll feel really old. It's the flannel shirt of fonts.
int_19h 8y ago
If you like bold fonts, try Terminus bold at around 16pt. Also, the old VGA font is surprisingly nice and legible. Can be had here: https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/ https://int10h.org/oldschool-pc-fonts/fontlist/

valtism 8y ago

I'm curious to know how you started using proportional fonts for coding. All of the tooling for writing code defaults to monospace, so what started you coding in a different style?

edejong 8y ago
For me it was efficiency of reading. It is proven that proportional, serif fonts read significantly faster (17%) [1] or [2] (6.1%). Also, in my opinion, scanning is much faster. This makes sense: our eye uses the top and bottom of words to ‘key’ the word. Use proportional and you add information to this system. [1] https://blog.codinghorror.com/comparing-font-legibility/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/comparing-font-legibility/ [2] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/001872088302500303 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/001872088302500... (edit: add references to research)
Stratoscope 8y ago
Thank you for your curiosity! My other comment may answer the "how I started" question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18958335 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18958335 But one thing I'm wondering about: > All of the tooling for writing code defaults to monospace... Do you have an example of such tooling? One that I'm familiar with is Google's coding standards, which are obsessed with lining things up in ways that only work in monospaced fonts. Is that the kind of thing you're thinking of, or something else? Thanks!
int_19h 8y ago
One of the early proponents of using proportional fonts for code was Bjarne Stroustroup - his "The C++ Programming Language" books all do that, and he briefly explains it in the intro as being more readable, and urges the readers to give it a go. I wasn't convinced, personally, but the idea was already around then.
- augustk 8y ago
  Using a proportional font is also common (recommended) when programming in Bertrand Meyer's Eiffel or Niklaus Wirth's Oberon.

ww520 8y ago

Curious. How do you line things up?

hmottestad 8y ago
Not OP, but I use Verdana in Java. Most things line up perfectly fine i IntelliJ. I have had someone on my team with an itch for lining up variable assignment. That was the one thing that looked off. int abc = 3 int defg = 4 int bigTestVaribale = 6
- edejong 8y ago
  (Another proportional font user) These cause problems in diffs as well. Change bigTestVarible to bigTestVAriable and all three lines show as changed. Nevertheless, for teams that insist, the auto code formatter makes it look ‘nice’ for them. Personally, I think vertical alignment apart from indentation is a mistake for more than these reasons. It implies a structure where there is none.
Stratoscope 8y ago
> Curious. How do you line things up? I don't! :-) I spent many years lining things up. I would write code like this: foobar(firstArg, secondArg, thirdArg); (For the sake of discussion, assume that those arguments were too long to just put it all on one line, so you would naturally want to use multiple lines.) Then when I realized that 'foobar' wasn't such a good name, I had to re-align all the code: doTheRealThing(firstArg, secondArg, thirdArg); At some point, maybe 20 years ago, I got really tired of this. So I thought, "what if I just use indentation instead of trying to line things up in columns?" Which led to this: foobar( firstArg, secondArg, thirdArg ); And when I renamed the function, I didn't have to move everything around any more: doTheRealThing( firstArg, secondArg, thirdArg ); Instead of every line changing, only one line changed. [1] After I adopted this style, I noticed that the code editor I was using at the time supported proportional fonts, so I got curious and tried one - I think it was Verdana. And sure enough, the code was just as readable as it was before. If you don't line things up in columns but instead just use indentation, then a proportional font works just as well as monospaced. [1] Some will say "just ignore whitespace in your VCS diffs, and this won't be a problem." But I want to know about whitespace changes, just like I want to know about any other change.

edejong 8y ago

Verdana and Optima are my go to fonts. Have used proportional fonts since 2010, with close to no problems, save the occasional newbie who aligns assignments or types.

pmontra 8y ago

I also use proportional fonts. No problem with coworkers in either JavaScript, Ruby, Python, Elixir. I'm using DejaVu Sans Book on Ubuntu in Emacs. People are always puzzled when they learn I'm not using a monospaced font, think it's impossible but agree that it's much more readable. Then keep using their monospaced fonts. Actually, nobody likes to read books or blog posts printed with monospaced fonts, right? There is no reason to do it with code. Alignment like this short = 1 much_longer = 2 is lost but it's not really important. I think it's also against Python's style guide and for sure it doesn't survive the Elixir formatter (I checked this now.)