4 ms·

One way to help answer this question is to imagine what would happen if, around the same time Larry & Sergey started Google, two identical grad students were wo

by pg 16y ago

One way to help answer this question is to imagine what would happen if, around the same time Larry & Sergey started Google, two identical grad students were working on the same thing at a university elsewhere in the world. The second story would have played out a lot differently. This thought experiment isn't a complete answer, but it's not irrelevant either.

iuguy 16y ago
That's interesting. There's quite a few places around the world where it would've been different, but how different depends on the targeting. At the time Google started up, Yahoo! was the biggest (IIRC, it was a long time ago). Both were American companies and both initially targeted the US (I distinctly remember using Google and finding it crap for UK-specific stuff, so went back to flitting between Lycos and Altavista. Had Google started up in Cambridge or Oxford, I imagine they would've targeted the UK and possibly Europe initially, focusing on different search patterns, different promotional strategies and so on. They may well have been intimidated by Yahoo in some respects but would've seen an opportunity to attack Yahoo's poor local search. Had they have started in China they could've been Baidu.cn. Of course, all this is academic but an interesting thought experiment nonetheless. I think if Google started in the US at the same time as a UK search engine, the UK engine would've been more reliant on the UK market and would've seen slower growth once there's initial traction, but Google's search domination isn't completely global.
adammichaelc 16y ago
That's really interesting thought. In the US and specifically Silicon Valley, they got a check for $100,000-ish to help them in the early years. In most any other country (or even most other parts of the US), that money wouldn't have been available to 2 unknown people, regardless of how smart they were. That's not the only piece of the puzzle, but it's significant.
- hasenj 16y ago
  There are other factors. For example, Linus went to a university in Finland, it was free so he stayed there for 8 years or so. If he was in the US at the time, would he have had the time and freedom to work on a Free kernel full time? He would probably be in a deep debt like most students. The point being, there are many other things that other countries have that America doesn't have.
  - gahahaha 16y ago
    It could be argued that he is the exception that proves the rule. He did something great, but he did not start Linux, the company, and make billions. Also - Linux would be useless without the GNU project - which is arguably very American.
    - hasenj 16y ago
      GNU is very anti-capitalism. RMS talks about valuing "community and freedom" over "features". That's pretty much what the "communism" ideal is all about, right? Not saying GNU is communist, that's very taboo, but the ideals and motivation are definitely not "very American".
      - pg 16y ago
        "GNU is very anti-capitalism." Fortunately, however, the source code is not aware of this.
        hasenj 16y ago
        I didn't mean it as "against commercial use". I meant the spirit of it favors community over commercial use. The whole point of the GPL is to prevent people from "sealing away" the source code and favor commercial gains over the hacker community. I view capitalism as "valuing money above all things". Don't confuse capitalism with the free market; the free market existed over a thousand years ago. Many people got rich through trade. Perhaps not in Europe (I don't know).
        anamax 16y ago
        > I view capitalism as "valuing money above all things". That's nice, but it means that no one can communicate with you because they agree that it means something else.
        hasenj 16y ago
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
hasenj 16y ago
Where did you get this notion that innovation can only happen in Silicon Valley? Does the Silicon Valley produce anything remotely close to Japanese Anime? Do Americans produce cars that are anywhere close to German or Japanese cars? Do Americans produce desserts that are anywhere near in quality to European desserts? There are many things that Americans are simply horrible at doing.
- pshapiro 16y ago
  It will be more helpful to both parties if you can show a concrete problem through some existent things.

by pg 16y ago

iuguy 16y ago

That's interesting. There's quite a few places around the world where it would've been different, but how different depends on the targeting. At the time Google started up, Yahoo! was the biggest (IIRC, it was a long time ago). Both were American companies and both initially targeted the US (I distinctly remember using Google and finding it crap for UK-specific stuff, so went back to flitting between Lycos and Altavista. Had Google started up in Cambridge or Oxford, I imagine they would've targeted the UK and possibly Europe initially, focusing on different search patterns, different promotional strategies and so on. They may well have been intimidated by Yahoo in some respects but would've seen an opportunity to attack Yahoo's poor local search. Had they have started in China they could've been Baidu.cn. Of course, all this is academic but an interesting thought experiment nonetheless. I think if Google started in the US at the same time as a UK search engine, the UK engine would've been more reliant on the UK market and would've seen slower growth once there's initial traction, but Google's search domination isn't completely global.

adammichaelc 16y ago

That's really interesting thought. In the US and specifically Silicon Valley, they got a check for $100,000-ish to help them in the early years. In most any other country (or even most other parts of the US), that money wouldn't have been available to 2 unknown people, regardless of how smart they were. That's not the only piece of the puzzle, but it's significant.

hasenj 16y ago
There are other factors. For example, Linus went to a university in Finland, it was free so he stayed there for 8 years or so. If he was in the US at the time, would he have had the time and freedom to work on a Free kernel full time? He would probably be in a deep debt like most students. The point being, there are many other things that other countries have that America doesn't have.
- gahahaha 16y ago
  It could be argued that he is the exception that proves the rule. He did something great, but he did not start Linux, the company, and make billions. Also - Linux would be useless without the GNU project - which is arguably very American.
  - hasenj 16y ago
    GNU is very anti-capitalism. RMS talks about valuing "community and freedom" over "features". That's pretty much what the "communism" ideal is all about, right? Not saying GNU is communist, that's very taboo, but the ideals and motivation are definitely not "very American".
    - pg 16y ago
      "GNU is very anti-capitalism." Fortunately, however, the source code is not aware of this.
      - hasenj 16y ago
        I didn't mean it as "against commercial use". I meant the spirit of it favors community over commercial use. The whole point of the GPL is to prevent people from "sealing away" the source code and favor commercial gains over the hacker community. I view capitalism as "valuing money above all things". Don't confuse capitalism with the free market; the free market existed over a thousand years ago. Many people got rich through trade. Perhaps not in Europe (I don't know).
        anamax 16y ago
        > I view capitalism as "valuing money above all things". That's nice, but it means that no one can communicate with you because they agree that it means something else.
        hasenj 16y ago

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

hasenj 16y ago

Where did you get this notion that innovation can only happen in Silicon Valley? Does the Silicon Valley produce anything remotely close to Japanese Anime? Do Americans produce cars that are anywhere close to German or Japanese cars? Do Americans produce desserts that are anywhere near in quality to European desserts? There are many things that Americans are simply horrible at doing.

pshapiro 16y ago
It will be more helpful to both parties if you can show a concrete problem through some existent things.