5 ms·

This is nearly pseudoscience.. Indians have one of the highest rates of heart attacks even though a significant population is purely vegetarian. I think scien

This is nearly pseudoscience.. Indians have one of the highest rates of heart attacks even though a significant population is purely vegetarian. I think science has to be focused on biology and science, not social surveys and asking questions to a small bunch of uncontrolled strangers.

gammateam 8y ago
What are the likely dietary habits of people that have time for academic surveys Just college kids and mechanical turk penny vacuums So probably a little predictable
- tomcam 8y ago
  > mechanical turk penny vacuums Wait, what's that?
  - saghm 8y ago
    Mechanical Turk is an (Amazon) crowd-sourcing site where one can post small jobs (such as surveys) to be completed for a small amount of money (often only $0.05-0.10). I assume "penny vaccums" here is a metaphor for people who complete a large number of tasks for the money. https://www.mturk.com/ https://www.mturk.com/
    - tomcam 8y ago
      OK, thank you.
- Fomite 8y ago
  Or not... "Participants This report reviews the outcomes of 198 consecutive nonsmoking patients with multiple comorbidities of hyperlipidemia (n=161), hypertension (n=60), and diabetes (n=23) who voluntarily asked for counseling in plantbased nutrition for disease treatment. These self-selected participants requested consultation after learning about the program through the Internet, the media, prior scientific publications, the senior author’s book (CBE Jr), other authors’ supportive comments, or word of mouth.2,13 A preliminary 25- to 30-minute telephone conversation established disease presentation and severity by eliciting reports of symptoms, history of MI, stress test and angiogram results, interventions undertaken, family history, lipid profile, and the presence of comorbid chronic conditions. In these calls, we outlined the program, established rapport, and documented the need for additional patient information. The Cleveland Clinic Institutional Review Board determined that these were acceptable outcome measurements to evaluate the nutrition program." "Baseline characteristics of participants are shown in Table 1. (Two patients from the original group of 200 were lost to follow-up.) The remaining 198 participants for whom data were available had CVD, were mostly men (91%), averaged 62.9 years of age, and were followed for an average of 44.2 months (3.7 years). "
dehrmann 8y ago
> Indians have one of the highest rates of heart attacks even though a significant population is purely vegetarian. Ghee could be part of the cause of that, but I have no idea what to think of saturated fat any more.
- oredbored 8y ago
  You're right about Ghee. It is off the charts high in oxidized cholesterol. It's like butter on crack.
oredbored 8y ago
It wasn't a survey. Imagine calling something pseudo science without even reading the abstract.
- mindfulplay 8y ago
  I did read the abstract. Most such research simply monitor the participants' diets through a questionnaire or some indirect mechanism. It's not a scientific, reproducible approach. I am making a meta-point that such research has started to affect more and more of what we think of as science which is extremely disturbing. The harder scientific work would be to analyze the effect of specific foods with how the heart works over a much longer epriod of time. Granted that there isn't a way to track or pursue this line of inquiry yet, but taking shortcuts isn't science IMO.

gammateam 8y ago

What are the likely dietary habits of people that have time for academic surveys Just college kids and mechanical turk penny vacuums So probably a little predictable

tomcam 8y ago
> mechanical turk penny vacuums Wait, what's that?
- saghm 8y ago
  Mechanical Turk is an (Amazon) crowd-sourcing site where one can post small jobs (such as surveys) to be completed for a small amount of money (often only $0.05-0.10). I assume "penny vaccums" here is a metaphor for people who complete a large number of tasks for the money. https://www.mturk.com/ https://www.mturk.com/
  - tomcam 8y ago
    OK, thank you.
Fomite 8y ago
Or not... "Participants This report reviews the outcomes of 198 consecutive nonsmoking patients with multiple comorbidities of hyperlipidemia (n=161), hypertension (n=60), and diabetes (n=23) who voluntarily asked for counseling in plantbased nutrition for disease treatment. These self-selected participants requested consultation after learning about the program through the Internet, the media, prior scientific publications, the senior author’s book (CBE Jr), other authors’ supportive comments, or word of mouth.2,13 A preliminary 25- to 30-minute telephone conversation established disease presentation and severity by eliciting reports of symptoms, history of MI, stress test and angiogram results, interventions undertaken, family history, lipid profile, and the presence of comorbid chronic conditions. In these calls, we outlined the program, established rapport, and documented the need for additional patient information. The Cleveland Clinic Institutional Review Board determined that these were acceptable outcome measurements to evaluate the nutrition program." "Baseline characteristics of participants are shown in Table 1. (Two patients from the original group of 200 were lost to follow-up.) The remaining 198 participants for whom data were available had CVD, were mostly men (91%), averaged 62.9 years of age, and were followed for an average of 44.2 months (3.7 years). "

dehrmann 8y ago

> Indians have one of the highest rates of heart attacks even though a significant population is purely vegetarian. Ghee could be part of the cause of that, but I have no idea what to think of saturated fat any more.

oredbored 8y ago
You're right about Ghee. It is off the charts high in oxidized cholesterol. It's like butter on crack.

oredbored 8y ago

It wasn't a survey. Imagine calling something pseudo science without even reading the abstract.

mindfulplay 8y ago
I did read the abstract. Most such research simply monitor the participants' diets through a questionnaire or some indirect mechanism. It's not a scientific, reproducible approach. I am making a meta-point that such research has started to affect more and more of what we think of as science which is extremely disturbing. The harder scientific work would be to analyze the effect of specific foods with how the heart works over a much longer epriod of time. Granted that there isn't a way to track or pursue this line of inquiry yet, but taking shortcuts isn't science IMO.