7 ms·

Standing up straight isn't as easy as it sounds. For a lot of desk workers you're going to have to fix your tight hamstrings, abnormal pelvic tilt, and weak abd

Standing up straight isn't as easy as it sounds. For a lot of desk workers you're going to have to fix your tight hamstrings, abnormal pelvic tilt, and weak abdominal muscles before it will be possible to stand up straight.

Zarath 8y ago
Sort of anecdotal, but as soon as I started deadlifting I noticed an immediate improvement in standing posture.
- acangiano 8y ago
  It makes perfect sense, but it's worth noting that there are plenty of safer exercises for beginners that will improve core and posterior chain. Think glutes bridges, dead bugs, planks, Pallof press, etc. Some people jump straight to the big compounding lifts (because they are amazing for building strength) with no guidance from a trainer or much care for their form. You deadlift or squat heavy wrong and it's extremely easy to injure yourself or do more harm than good.
  - samatman 8y ago
    This is FUD, basically. Yes, don’t start squatting and deadlifting without learning how to do it properly. Yes, start light, you only have one spine and two knees. No, it is not “extremely easy” to injure yourself if you show a modicum of good sense and avoid max lifting. I agree with GP that squats and deadlifts will improve posture in a relatively short period of time. They are among the best exercises, period, for improving health and vitality, while being objectively less risky than, say, jogging.
    - dvtrn 8y ago
      if you show a modicum of good sense and avoid max lifting. Isn't that why they said it's easy to do if done improperly?
    - graeme 8y ago
      I hurt my back on a not so heavy deadlift. Had done them for two years prior, learned how to do them, etc But all it took was one day where I was probably too tired/stressed. It wasn't a serious injury, but that spot in my back is still tight and I haven't really been able to unlock it despite physio, massage etc May have had pre-existing tension which made it more likely. Dunno. But injury can happen more easily than you think. (Though jogging is still more injury prone, I think. I'm just saying: treat the lifts with caution.)
      - samatman 8y ago
        I fully agree with this, and wish to share an anecdote of my own: I severely injured my back, bulged disk, cause? Poor computer posture and near-total lack of exercise. I'm fairly convinced that lifting has left me substantially less injury prone: I started when I noticed that I was experiencing knee pain when bending down to pick something up off the floor. That's been gone since about two months after starting training. Definitely respect yourself and respect the weight. Best of luck with your recovery, I know how it is and it's a journey for sure.
        graeme 8y ago
        Thanks. I should also add, for context, that I plan to do lifting again, and would encourage others to do so. One of my favourite ever activities. I'd just encourage the neophyte to be a bit cautious. Five minutes can lead to an injury that takes you out for a month, and leaves some persistent tension that will take work to get out. And in particular I'd caution against going heavy if you're tired or stressed. I think my system in general became injury prone and tense during a period of stress. I've worked that out and feel better able to excercise compound lifts.
        tremendo 8y ago
        > …and respect the weight. All it takes is a lapse in concentration. In my case, my grip started to fail mid set. So I switched (from overhand to mixed), next rep that wasn't enough and, well, surely I can save this rep if I just engage my bi… Oh, snap! Surgery and a year later, mostly recovered, but still.
    - ubercow13 8y ago
      Disagree from my experience, it is easy to injure yourself and recovery from back injuries can be slow. I am very careful and analytical about learning new activities, read the whole of starting strength carefully and practised filming myself while learning, and still hurt my back after 4 years of squatting, probably due to a momentary lapse in form. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, but there are probably less risky exercises to do.
      - rb666 8y ago
        Not much so risky as sitting all day though. Whatever you do, get off your butt.
      - agent008t 8y ago
        I have had a similar experience, even though I am still much better off because of SS. Then again, I had been doing martial arts before, and the injuries I had seen there were far worse. I wonder if lifting with a good coach would significantly reduce the risk of injuries.
    - wastedhours 8y ago
      > No, it is not “extremely easy” to injure yourself if you show a modicum of good sense and avoid max lifting. I think the OP was making the point specifically that doing it wrong would make it extremely easy to injure yourself. Which it would be, and doing it wrong would also be extremely easy for a beginner to do.
    - Gatsky 8y ago
      There is a trend among pro trainers to do single leg work under less weight rather than massive squats and deadlifts. See for example Mike Boyle's great book where he describes his methods for training athletes: https://www.amazon.com/Functional-Training-Sports-Michael-Boyle/dp/1492530611 https://www.amazon.com/Functional-Training-Sports-Michael-Bo... Edit: grammar
    - vidarh 8y ago
      It's not fud. I hurt my back several times because I didn't realise I didn't have sufficient flexibility to do these lifts safely. Now years later, hardly a week goes by that I don't see people doing these lifts badly. Your answer is a bit like the old joke: "Patient: doctor it hurts when I do this. Doctor: well, then don't do that". The reality is that while these are great exercises, they are exercises that are easy to do badly, and that lot of people do badly without anyone ever pointing it out to them, because they think they know them and don't ask for help, and often people don't realize what the warning signs are. To point out that there are risks with these exercises is sensible, and not FUD, because you can seriously harm both your back and your knees with them if you don't make sure you learn them properly, and a lot of people start out with insufficient flexibility to be able to do them properly. I've done heavy compound lifts for 15+ years now, and my knees and back are stronger than they ever were before I lifted, but I also did manage to hurt my back when I first started, because I thought I'd learned how to do it properly but hadn't, and nobody corrected me, and I lacked the flexibility to even have a chance of doing them correctly. Thankfully I didn't hurt myself seriously, and took the opportunity to actually sort out the problems, but not everyone gets that lucky.
      - faceplanted 8y ago
        I think you two are talking across each other, he's saying that if you lift properly it's not easy to get injured, and you're not saying that it's easy to get injured deadlifting properly but that it's easy to deadlift wrong and therefor get injured. It's really quite rare that someone is deadlifting wrong the first time because they don't have the flexibility to do it properly compared to doing it wrong because they didn't ask for the right kind of help.
        close04 8y ago
        Even bomb disposal can be a safe thing if you do it perfectly right :). I think the issue (when you take off the coat of semantics) is that it's easy to do it wrong and injure yourself.
    - UweSchmidt 8y ago
      I would say squat and deadlift are extremely difficult excercises which require instruction by a good personal trainer and lots of supervision. You can get away with a lot when you're young but these excercises can hurt you badly. My form suffers when I train alone, even though I'm very careful, and it only takes one bad rep... and if we're honest, pretty much no one in any regular gym does any excercise properly, so just advising everyone to just squat and deadlift is problematic imo.
    - loco5niner 8y ago
      Yeah... I hurt my knees doing squats. I suspect it was due to tight hamstrings but can't be sure. (I tried doing it right - following the Starting Strength book, not going to heavy, etc). I'm fine now, but anytime I try to do squats again, my knees (patellar tendon) hurt.
      - agent008t 8y ago
        The problem with most sports training programmes - and it has bugged me since I was a kid - is that their observed effectiveness suffers from survivorship bias. People that aren't doing well on the programme - are not making progress or get injured - simply stop following it and drop out. It would be really nice to see the stats from an actual coach on every trainee of theirs, what their outcome was or why they stopped, with some before/after stats as well.
- agumonkey 8y ago
  same with pushups, I didn't expect workout to have such health benefits (and even morale)
- barry-cotter 8y ago
  Squats work well too and are quite a bit harder to mess up as long as you remember the entire sole of your foot must stay on the ground at all times and to keep your feet facing forward or out, not in.
- vidarh 8y ago
  If you have enough flexibility to be able to do deadlifts or squats properly, then sure, it helps further. For my part it took months and hurting my back (thankfully not seriously) before I realized my entire posterior chain was basically too tight for me to be able to keep my back firm enough to do especially squats, but deadlifts too to a certain extent, safely at all but the very lightest weights. Deadlifts and squats with low weight are good ways of seeing if you have sufficient flexibility, though. If you can't do them with good form even at low weights, then it's definitively a sign you need to do more stretches.
  - Cthulhu_ 8y ago
    Flexibility really is a thing; I never knew ankle mobility was my main issue until a personal trainer pointed it out and made me do some exercises to help out with that. Knowing it now and knowing what should be possible, I almost feel like reduced ankle mobility is a disability. It can be improved with exercises and training, but it's something that needs focus.
    - graeme 8y ago
      How did you improve it? My right ankle has been less mobile ever since a sprain nine years ago.
  - viburnum 8y ago
    I kept lowering the weight until I was just doing the bar and I was still having pain. I'm still working on basically mobility now.
StavrosK 8y ago
Define "straight"? Also, why do you have to sit up as straight as you define it to breathe more easily? Sounds like any kind of straight is fine.
- bdibs 8y ago
  With the proper pelvic tilt it allows your diaphragm to move more freely.
azinman2 8y ago
Why do you say abnormal pelvic tilt? Is that common? (I literally just got a massage where the bodyworker told me my hip was tilted majority, so it’s a stricking thing to read here...)
- ajkjk 8y ago
  Yes, it's ubiquitous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelvic_tilt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelvic_tilt. Exercises that strengthen stabilizer muscles (squats, or yoga or something) help a lot with it.
- vikiomega9 8y ago
  What massage was this?
  - azinman2 8y ago
    Myofascial
- karmelapple 8y ago
  The book "8 Steps to a Pain-Free Back" talks all about it and has a long-term plan on how to address it for you. https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Shoulder/dp/0979303605/ https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Should...
  - crazygringo 8y ago
    Sorry, but please don't follow the advice in that book, it's terrible. A far, far better book is "The New Rules of Posture". [1] See my review at [2] which also briefly explains why "8 Steps" is bad. [1] https://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Posture-Stand-Modern/dp/1594771243 https://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Posture-Stand-Modern/dp/159... [2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2CVZCSXVLQ1EM https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2CVZCSXVLQ1EM
- viburnum 8y ago
  I heard the same from a masseur. Leaning forward to look at a monitor pushes your center of gravity forward so the rest of your body has to compensate, which includes the pelvic tilt.
yeutterg 8y ago
A great book that will help with posture, including fixing pelvic tilt, is 8 Steps to a Pain-Free Back by Esther Gokhale [1]. The author traveled around the world and looked through history to find out if we always had such terrible posture. It turns out that industrialized societies put a large emphasis on good posture up until the early 20th century. Even today, great posture can be found in less-industrialized cultures. The Gokhale method has been a game-changer for many, even though it flies in the face of a lot of modern theories about designing furniture and "good" posture. I've personally met people with arthritis and lower back problems who were able to reduce pain and prevent further damage with this book. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Shoulder/dp/0979303605/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1548037863&sr=8-1&keywords=8+steps+to+a+pain+free+back https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Should...
- pseudolus 8y ago
  A lot of people swear by the Alexander technique with its emphasis on posture and breathing [0][1]. There are number of studios and videos that go into depth and, anecdotally, it appears to be effective. The referenced wikipedia article also discusses several studies that seem to confirm it as a viable option. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Technique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Technique [1] https://www.alexandertechnique.com/ https://www.alexandertechnique.com/
  - yeutterg 8y ago
    I've heard good things about it as well!
rv-de 8y ago
You can also sit - as long as the back is straight. Actually, sitting is probably preferable. Most relaxation techniques as well as Pranayama are usually practiced sitting.

Zarath 8y ago

Sort of anecdotal, but as soon as I started deadlifting I noticed an immediate improvement in standing posture.

acangiano 8y ago
It makes perfect sense, but it's worth noting that there are plenty of safer exercises for beginners that will improve core and posterior chain. Think glutes bridges, dead bugs, planks, Pallof press, etc. Some people jump straight to the big compounding lifts (because they are amazing for building strength) with no guidance from a trainer or much care for their form. You deadlift or squat heavy wrong and it's extremely easy to injure yourself or do more harm than good.
- samatman 8y ago
  This is FUD, basically. Yes, don’t start squatting and deadlifting without learning how to do it properly. Yes, start light, you only have one spine and two knees. No, it is not “extremely easy” to injure yourself if you show a modicum of good sense and avoid max lifting. I agree with GP that squats and deadlifts will improve posture in a relatively short period of time. They are among the best exercises, period, for improving health and vitality, while being objectively less risky than, say, jogging.
  - dvtrn 8y ago
    if you show a modicum of good sense and avoid max lifting. Isn't that why they said it's easy to do if done improperly?
  - graeme 8y ago
    I hurt my back on a not so heavy deadlift. Had done them for two years prior, learned how to do them, etc But all it took was one day where I was probably too tired/stressed. It wasn't a serious injury, but that spot in my back is still tight and I haven't really been able to unlock it despite physio, massage etc May have had pre-existing tension which made it more likely. Dunno. But injury can happen more easily than you think. (Though jogging is still more injury prone, I think. I'm just saying: treat the lifts with caution.)
    - samatman 8y ago
      I fully agree with this, and wish to share an anecdote of my own: I severely injured my back, bulged disk, cause? Poor computer posture and near-total lack of exercise. I'm fairly convinced that lifting has left me substantially less injury prone: I started when I noticed that I was experiencing knee pain when bending down to pick something up off the floor. That's been gone since about two months after starting training. Definitely respect yourself and respect the weight. Best of luck with your recovery, I know how it is and it's a journey for sure.
      - graeme 8y ago
        Thanks. I should also add, for context, that I plan to do lifting again, and would encourage others to do so. One of my favourite ever activities. I'd just encourage the neophyte to be a bit cautious. Five minutes can lead to an injury that takes you out for a month, and leaves some persistent tension that will take work to get out. And in particular I'd caution against going heavy if you're tired or stressed. I think my system in general became injury prone and tense during a period of stress. I've worked that out and feel better able to excercise compound lifts.
      - tremendo 8y ago
        > …and respect the weight. All it takes is a lapse in concentration. In my case, my grip started to fail mid set. So I switched (from overhand to mixed), next rep that wasn't enough and, well, surely I can save this rep if I just engage my bi… Oh, snap! Surgery and a year later, mostly recovered, but still.
  - ubercow13 8y ago
    Disagree from my experience, it is easy to injure yourself and recovery from back injuries can be slow. I am very careful and analytical about learning new activities, read the whole of starting strength carefully and practised filming myself while learning, and still hurt my back after 4 years of squatting, probably due to a momentary lapse in form. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, but there are probably less risky exercises to do.
    - rb666 8y ago
      Not much so risky as sitting all day though. Whatever you do, get off your butt.
    - agent008t 8y ago
      I have had a similar experience, even though I am still much better off because of SS. Then again, I had been doing martial arts before, and the injuries I had seen there were far worse. I wonder if lifting with a good coach would significantly reduce the risk of injuries.
  - wastedhours 8y ago
    > No, it is not “extremely easy” to injure yourself if you show a modicum of good sense and avoid max lifting. I think the OP was making the point specifically that doing it wrong would make it extremely easy to injure yourself. Which it would be, and doing it wrong would also be extremely easy for a beginner to do.
  - Gatsky 8y ago
    There is a trend among pro trainers to do single leg work under less weight rather than massive squats and deadlifts. See for example Mike Boyle's great book where he describes his methods for training athletes: https://www.amazon.com/Functional-Training-Sports-Michael-Boyle/dp/1492530611 https://www.amazon.com/Functional-Training-Sports-Michael-Bo... Edit: grammar
  - vidarh 8y ago
    It's not fud. I hurt my back several times because I didn't realise I didn't have sufficient flexibility to do these lifts safely. Now years later, hardly a week goes by that I don't see people doing these lifts badly. Your answer is a bit like the old joke: "Patient: doctor it hurts when I do this. Doctor: well, then don't do that". The reality is that while these are great exercises, they are exercises that are easy to do badly, and that lot of people do badly without anyone ever pointing it out to them, because they think they know them and don't ask for help, and often people don't realize what the warning signs are. To point out that there are risks with these exercises is sensible, and not FUD, because you can seriously harm both your back and your knees with them if you don't make sure you learn them properly, and a lot of people start out with insufficient flexibility to be able to do them properly. I've done heavy compound lifts for 15+ years now, and my knees and back are stronger than they ever were before I lifted, but I also did manage to hurt my back when I first started, because I thought I'd learned how to do it properly but hadn't, and nobody corrected me, and I lacked the flexibility to even have a chance of doing them correctly. Thankfully I didn't hurt myself seriously, and took the opportunity to actually sort out the problems, but not everyone gets that lucky.
    - faceplanted 8y ago
      I think you two are talking across each other, he's saying that if you lift properly it's not easy to get injured, and you're not saying that it's easy to get injured deadlifting properly but that it's easy to deadlift wrong and therefor get injured. It's really quite rare that someone is deadlifting wrong the first time because they don't have the flexibility to do it properly compared to doing it wrong because they didn't ask for the right kind of help.
      - close04 8y ago
        Even bomb disposal can be a safe thing if you do it perfectly right :). I think the issue (when you take off the coat of semantics) is that it's easy to do it wrong and injure yourself.
  - UweSchmidt 8y ago
    I would say squat and deadlift are extremely difficult excercises which require instruction by a good personal trainer and lots of supervision. You can get away with a lot when you're young but these excercises can hurt you badly. My form suffers when I train alone, even though I'm very careful, and it only takes one bad rep... and if we're honest, pretty much no one in any regular gym does any excercise properly, so just advising everyone to just squat and deadlift is problematic imo.
  - loco5niner 8y ago
    Yeah... I hurt my knees doing squats. I suspect it was due to tight hamstrings but can't be sure. (I tried doing it right - following the Starting Strength book, not going to heavy, etc). I'm fine now, but anytime I try to do squats again, my knees (patellar tendon) hurt.
    - agent008t 8y ago
      The problem with most sports training programmes - and it has bugged me since I was a kid - is that their observed effectiveness suffers from survivorship bias. People that aren't doing well on the programme - are not making progress or get injured - simply stop following it and drop out. It would be really nice to see the stats from an actual coach on every trainee of theirs, what their outcome was or why they stopped, with some before/after stats as well.
agumonkey 8y ago
same with pushups, I didn't expect workout to have such health benefits (and even morale)
barry-cotter 8y ago
Squats work well too and are quite a bit harder to mess up as long as you remember the entire sole of your foot must stay on the ground at all times and to keep your feet facing forward or out, not in.
vidarh 8y ago
If you have enough flexibility to be able to do deadlifts or squats properly, then sure, it helps further. For my part it took months and hurting my back (thankfully not seriously) before I realized my entire posterior chain was basically too tight for me to be able to keep my back firm enough to do especially squats, but deadlifts too to a certain extent, safely at all but the very lightest weights. Deadlifts and squats with low weight are good ways of seeing if you have sufficient flexibility, though. If you can't do them with good form even at low weights, then it's definitively a sign you need to do more stretches.
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  Flexibility really is a thing; I never knew ankle mobility was my main issue until a personal trainer pointed it out and made me do some exercises to help out with that. Knowing it now and knowing what should be possible, I almost feel like reduced ankle mobility is a disability. It can be improved with exercises and training, but it's something that needs focus.
  - graeme 8y ago
    How did you improve it? My right ankle has been less mobile ever since a sprain nine years ago.
- viburnum 8y ago
  I kept lowering the weight until I was just doing the bar and I was still having pain. I'm still working on basically mobility now.

StavrosK 8y ago

Define "straight"? Also, why do you have to sit up as straight as you define it to breathe more easily? Sounds like any kind of straight is fine.

bdibs 8y ago
With the proper pelvic tilt it allows your diaphragm to move more freely.

azinman2 8y ago

Why do you say abnormal pelvic tilt? Is that common? (I literally just got a massage where the bodyworker told me my hip was tilted majority, so it’s a stricking thing to read here...)

ajkjk 8y ago
Yes, it's ubiquitous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelvic_tilt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelvic_tilt. Exercises that strengthen stabilizer muscles (squats, or yoga or something) help a lot with it.
vikiomega9 8y ago
What massage was this?
- azinman2 8y ago
  Myofascial
karmelapple 8y ago
The book "8 Steps to a Pain-Free Back" talks all about it and has a long-term plan on how to address it for you. https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Shoulder/dp/0979303605/ https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Should...
- crazygringo 8y ago
  Sorry, but please don't follow the advice in that book, it's terrible. A far, far better book is "The New Rules of Posture". [1] See my review at [2] which also briefly explains why "8 Steps" is bad. [1] https://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Posture-Stand-Modern/dp/1594771243 https://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Posture-Stand-Modern/dp/159... [2] https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2CVZCSXVLQ1EM https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R2CVZCSXVLQ1EM
viburnum 8y ago
I heard the same from a masseur. Leaning forward to look at a monitor pushes your center of gravity forward so the rest of your body has to compensate, which includes the pelvic tilt.

yeutterg 8y ago

A great book that will help with posture, including fixing pelvic tilt, is 8 Steps to a Pain-Free Back by Esther Gokhale [1]. The author traveled around the world and looked through history to find out if we always had such terrible posture. It turns out that industrialized societies put a large emphasis on good posture up until the early 20th century. Even today, great posture can be found in less-industrialized cultures. The Gokhale method has been a game-changer for many, even though it flies in the face of a lot of modern theories about designing furniture and "good" posture. I've personally met people with arthritis and lower back problems who were able to reduce pain and prevent further damage with this book. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Shoulder/dp/0979303605/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1548037863&sr=8-1&keywords=8+steps+to+a+pain+free+back https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Should...

pseudolus 8y ago
A lot of people swear by the Alexander technique with its emphasis on posture and breathing [0][1]. There are number of studios and videos that go into depth and, anecdotally, it appears to be effective. The referenced wikipedia article also discusses several studies that seem to confirm it as a viable option. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Technique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Technique [1] https://www.alexandertechnique.com/ https://www.alexandertechnique.com/
- yeutterg 8y ago
  I've heard good things about it as well!

rv-de 8y ago

You can also sit - as long as the back is straight. Actually, sitting is probably preferable. Most relaxation techniques as well as Pranayama are usually practiced sitting.