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Tesla laid off my disabled veteran husband then cancelled his sign on bonus

234 points by inarrears 8y ago

woah 8y ago
They should feel honored that he was allowed to share a building with Elon Musk. So ungrateful.
- anu7df 8y ago
  You forgot the sarcasm tag.
notus 8y ago
It is not very surprising when companies behave this way. They act in their own interest which oftentimes aligns with employee interests, but not always. I'm pretty sure the only way to guarantee more ethical behavior is to regulate it.
- gpm 8y ago
  It surprises me that a company as reliant on good will as Tesla is would do this. Literally every part of Tesla's business is relying on good will. Employees working hard for substandard wages. Customers buying luxury vehicles and sticking down deposits years in advance. Politicians creating subsidies and buying grid scale batteries. Etc. It's unlikely that this move (cutting the bonuses of everyone laid off) has saved Tesla more money than this one post hitting hacker news cost them.
  - mcny 8y ago
    Even as I read this, I am aware that I’m desperately trying to rationalize Tesla’s actions. I’m pretty sure I will be able to do it shortly. My guess is Tesla’s goodwill is safe for now.
    - bjl 8y ago
      This is Musk's PR budget in action, folks.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- denormalfloat 8y ago
  ..Or they could have interests more aligned. I would like to see more companies pay in stock rather than cash. That would mean sharing in company profits, and having a vote in company policies. If companies didn't pay dividends or give voting shares, that would be a reason to pick another company.
  - tensor 8y ago
    I've seen so many posts here complaining about how stock is worthless and please just give them cash. You literally can't win against the mob.
  - monksy 8y ago
    The stocks typically given are non-voting shares.
- hoaw 8y ago
  Unfortunately I don’t believe regulation would work in this case. Not because it wouldn’t be effective, but because it wouldn’t happen. People tend to wonder why e.g. Nordic unions are so strong. It is because they have real power. They have organizations, newspapers, building, cash and everything else that you need. The prime minister of Sweden was even recruited directly from being the head of a union, because of that unions long standing relationship with the party. This is why I always smirk a little bit when Americans speak out against unions like they actually would have a choice to form a an organization that would take power from the corporations and politicians. Eh, I don’t know what my point was. I guess I wouldn’t expect a solution anytime soon because it is a power issue.
  - unreal37 8y ago
    But this is also why Silicon Valley didn't happen in Norway.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      Norway is probably better off by not having Silicon Valley.
    - hoaw 8y ago
      No, it isn’t. SV didn’t happen anywhere in Europe, very likely because of WWII. Norway is mostly concerned about oil these days, but Sweden have been doing very well in tech for its size. Second most unicorn per capita in the world after SV is what people like to say.
      - monksy 8y ago
        Not even close. It's all down to culture and where their priorities lie. If WWII is any indication, the Germans would be very good at developing new tech. (They did it during the war) I believe that the reason why Europe has not had a good chance at a SV: 1. They don't rely on credit for the most part. Using Debit/EC cards are more previlent. 2. High taxes and cheap sources of labor: Most tech is outsourced to Eastern Europe. There is some seriously good talent there, but there's a heck of a lot that isn't great. The treatement of talent is used as a cheap cog in the machine. Hard to hire the best talent when the wages are at a particular level. 3. Strong labor unions and policies: Germany requires companies over a particular size to have representation from the labor force on the board. (This has created the wackamole in companies splitting off) 4. The regulations and monopolies are pretty strong in Europe: it's hard to compete and overthrow say sap or mediamarkt. (Although those are prime for a disruption). 5. Companies play fast and loose there. Due to strong workers rights, they're still playing tricks to prevent people from being full time. (Contractors, probation periods, etc)
i_am_nomad 8y ago
The last bit about having to sign an NDA sounds very legally questionable.
- shereadsthenews 8y ago
  If he got no consideration for it, he’s not bound by it. Never sign anything when you’re being fired unless they offer you money and in that case ask for much more than they open with.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    > Never sign anything when you’re being fired unless they offer you money and in that case ask for much more than they open with. +1 I'm not even having a conversation unless the topic is how much they're going to pay for further interaction upon being fired without notice, let alone signing anything. Pants are immediately coming off, and plans are made to head to the beach.
  - Reedx 8y ago
    > ...and in that case ask for much more than they open with. Have you (or anyone reading this) done that? What was the result?
    - simplecomplex 8y ago
      What’s the downside? If someone is fired giving the company anything for free is throwing money away. I had a boss at a startup let me know I was being let go with two weeks notice. I immediately asked for $20k or else I would walk out without helping anyone transition. He gave me the $20k (1/5th of my salary!!)
- freerobby 8y ago
  She issued a correction on Twitter: only the employer-sponsored health insurance is contingent on signing the NDA, not the 60 days of salary. > Because I’m not a labor attorney I got this part wrong the first twelve times I read it. (Legalese amirite?) If we don’t sign, they pull 60 days health insurance but not the actual payroll. Not complete horse shit but still horse shitty. /end correction https://twitter.com/_KariedAway_/status/1087148173984903169 https://twitter.com/_KariedAway_/status/1087148173984903169
dominotw 8y ago
> We are barely making ends meet. Wow. This is people working at high tech companies in bay area. Why are they being paid subsistence salaries. Too many people flooding into bay area? Why are ppl accepting such low salaries. So strange to me as an outsider. Whats the end game, just tough it out for a few yrs and build your resume and then get out?
- stuart78 8y ago
  A big part of it is just how expensive it is to live here. She mentions 3k on rent, for example. Kids are expensive as well, so while salaries can often appear high, the costs often scale to match. As she also mentions, it sounds like a large part of his total compensation was tied up in bonuses, which can be great when they work out well, but are much more discretionary than salary, as the story indicates.
  - dominotw 8y ago
    > As she also mentions, it sounds like a large part of his total compensation was tied up in bonuses, which can be great when they work out well, but are much more discretionary than salary, as the story indicates. Sounds like they took a gamble and didn't work out. also is this a scam? https://www.gofundme.com/help-kari-pollock039s-family https://www.gofundme.com/help-kari-pollock039s-family
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      I don't think it's fair to rationalize poor labor practices. If they had paid out this worker's remaining sign up bonus and his 2018 performance bonus, we would've likely never heard of this. I know I won't recommend Tesla vehicles to anyone anymore (this is the final publicized labor issue "straw" as a customer). And if Tesla is so cash strapped they couldn't pay that comp out for folks to move on mostly whole (60 days severance, remaining bonuses due, COBRA), management needs to be replaced with someone who can properly forecast cashflow, and more to the point, manage a business of this scale appropriately. EDIT: I have reported the GoFundMe campaign you mention to have the organizer verified.
willart4food 8y ago
The (new) American dream is a rnd() function
- m1sta_ 8y ago
  That'd be an improvement for many people compared to the status quo.
  - willart4food 8y ago
    Maybe. I feel that "calculated risk" is no risk at all. Blindly taking chances "just do it" fashion with no clue about possible consequences it's not very smart, especially since most decisions affect someone else negatively. There's randomness in life, no doubt about it. We can account for it: plan B, realist optimism, etc... But "hoping" that it will all happen just because of sheer luck... I don't think it's smart. For instance, I think this is what happened to FYRE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyre_Festival https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyre_Festival), there's a great documentary on Netflix. I cringed.
- gammateam 8y ago
  At what point wasnt it? The periods of economic growth and large scale upwards mobility that people like to point to in order to support their indoctrination were the also happening worldwide almost as soon as trade was liberalized.
wavee 8y ago
But what's her actual point? They're not allowed to fire disabled veterans? You get to keep receiving bonuses after firing? "A signing bonus or sign-on bonus is a sum of money paid to a new employee by a company as an incentive to join that company. To encourage employees to stay at the organization, there are often clauses in the contract whereby if the employee quits before a specified period, they must return the signing bonus."
- olliej 8y ago
  There’s a difference between quitting and being laid off, you know that right?
- daeken 8y ago
  Retracting a sign-on bonus when you're laying someone off -- rather than them quitting or being terminated for cause -- is wrong. That's tantamount to wage theft, IMO. Reversing someone's yearly bonus after the fact is just as bad.
  - matz1 8y ago
    Its not wrong unless the contract specifically says being laid off as exception.
    - daeken 8y ago
      Just because something isn't illegal/breach of contract doesn't mean it's right.
      - tylersmith 8y ago
        Then they shouldn't have agreed to it.
        SolaceQuantum 8y ago
        It shouldn't be wrong to assume that a contracted amount of money will actually be given to you without an added assessment that "if I'm laid off I should still get that money". Contracts cannot be used the same way one can code defensively, because when humans are involved defensive moves are also hostile moves- and the only way keeping the negotiations going is leverage on both sides.
longhorn_alum 8y ago
Meanwhile in the real world....
- daeken 8y ago
  I see you're a recent joiner of the site and have another comment much like this one. For what it's worth, I suggest reading the community guidelines, as you'll see why this is getting downvoted: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
vjeux 8y ago
It sounds like the sign on bonus she’s referring to vests over 4 years. Unless I’m mistaken, this is an initial stock grant and you only get the full amount if you stay with the company for 4 years.
- wavee 8y ago
  And they were probably well aware about this when he joined. He must have signed and agreed to those terms.
  - HarryHirsch 8y ago
    Wasn't it Amazon where they routinely fire people a few months before the vesting date?
- mygo 8y ago
  It always bothered me when people who wanted me to join their startup were bothered by me not wanting wait for something to vest that long. So you mean to tell me I can do all the work you need me to do right now, and then just get rid of me before it vests and I don't get it? I really think there should be 2 different vesting terms - 1 in case I quit (can be longer term in this case) - and another in case I get fired (shorter vesting period IMO). Call it early termination.
  - underwater 8y ago
    So now everyone who wants to leave the company will be a negative force, hoping to be fired. Not such a great idea. Vesting is fine as a concept. Just understand that whatever dollar amount to they're telling you is something you have the chance to earn over a period of time. It's not a bonus.
    - dingaling 8y ago
      So it's not a bonus, it's a loaded roll of the dice? I think there is merit in having immediate vesting in the case of no-fault dismissal. It's the company choosing to terminate the contract unliaterally, the employee has fulfilled his part of the deal.
ordinaryperson 8y ago
It's possible her husband got railroaded, however it's also possible he did not. Impossible to tell from this tweetstorm. First, being a disabled veteran does not preclude you from being laid off. And as many others in this thread have pointed out, the "sign on bonus" she appears to reference apparently vests over 4 years, which is not that uncommon. She says: > "We’re shattered. Devasted. And fucking broke. @Tesla, shame on you. I know lay offs are a part of life, but you really took the low road and kicked your loyal employee in the balls when he was down." Just to play Devil's Advocate for a minute, what if companies were prevented from firing or laying off employees because of the financial situation of the employee? Should the company be forced to keep paying redundant employees as some form of social justice or obligation? Look -- this is not a judgment on her, her husband, or their family. Maybe what happened to this couple is a complete travesty, maybe Tesla is some horrible evil mega-corporation and they should feel ashamed over the situation. However it's also possible her husband was in a department that was no longer needed or maybe even he underperformed his colleagues -- there's no way of knowing from this tweetstorm. What I dislike is this presumption on HN that just because someone tweeted out his/her spouse got laid off by a tech giant that it's automatically some immediate miscarriage of justice. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. There's no way of knowing from the evidence in front of us. I wish the mods of HN were more judicious in accepting these kind of one-sided screeds.
- Apocryphon 8y ago
  > Should the company be forced to keep paying redundant employees as some form of social justice or obligation? One would presume that much of the current agitation in the body populace regardless of political stripe would be mollified by such an attempt. The life expectancy may even rise.
- threeseed 8y ago
  Redundancies are a natural part of business and working life. It's how you do them that is important and it revolves around treating people with dignity. Give them notice, allow them time to say goodbye to others, don't escort them out the building, don't make them sign NDAs etc. Most companies do not have the spouses of former employees jump on Twitter to complain. So the mere fact it has happened means something went wrong from Tesla HR.
simplysimple 8y ago
I feel sympathy for anyone that loses a job without cause...but being disabled or a veteran does not convey any special rights on you.
iamleppert 8y ago
Her story is heartbreaking, and reminds me that once a company is “done with you” they don’t care about you anymore regardless of what kind of employee you were. Never expect a company to do right by you. Always act in your own best interests, even if those are not in alignment with the company. If working in the Bay Area has taught me anything, is you always need to be planning your next move. There is no such thing as job security in our present economy. Working at a large company is often times even more dangerous than a small one or startup because decisions like this which are made far away from your own sphere of influence. Companies are like sociopaths: they have no capacity for empathy, and if any does exist, it’s likely been legislated into them, taken from them by force or by public shame. If there are any companies left that actually do treat their employees like anything more than disposable assets, it’s only a matter of time before they are “disrupted” by one that is willing to do whatever it takes. Capitalism is a perverse force that cares only for efficiency, not for human lives.
rdl 8y ago
I'd argue for paying at least pro-rata signing bonus in the event of a not-for-cause termination like a layoff. Probably for letting the employee keep the entire signing bonus in this case. (More likely yes if it's a lower level employee, less likely if it's a very senior executive and a larger amount, but those are more often in equity or explicitly to make up for lost options in a previous company.) Otherwise, yes, termination and NDA/non-disparagement are fine. She has every right to be upset, but isn't really helping her case with irrelevant details. DV status is irrelevant to civilian employer. Performance bonus would depend on the terms. Was it a 2018 bonus for work in 2018, with a payout date in 2019? In that case, if terminated for cause (or quit), sure, don't pay, but they should pay for a layoff. Again, above the legal requirement, so making it conditional on NDA/nondisparagement is fine.
- cowsandmilk 8y ago
  > More likely yes if it's a lower level employee, less likely if it's a very senior executive and a larger amount, but those are more often in equity or explicitly to make up for lost options in a previous company. The thing is, the higher level employees are the ones most likely to have brought in a lawyer to review their employment agreement and to have negotiated explicitly for getting a clause for this type of payout if they are let go. These are often referred to as a golden parachute or golden handshake... Basically, fire someone near the top, whose mismanagement is likely responsible for problems, you have to pay out the nose; fire a low level employee, you pay next to nothing.
timavr 8y ago
Somehow the jobs which you want to do the most in tech screw you the hardest. Like if you do back-end database boring stuff of moving data around at random Enterprise X, then you can charge through the roof because they know that the only reason you are doing this job is for the paycheck. But if you are working on video games/Tesla/Other cool stuff and obviously passionate about the mission, you get screwed on compensation and if things go wrong, treated inhumanely. Also, why treat people like shit when they get laid off. Can't just manager meet with the person and say, hey our division got cut, I am sorry it turned out that way, happy to help out with the job search.
- pfranz 8y ago
  At one place I worked we called it the "cool job tax" because it was mostly reflected in salary.
  - alkibiades 8y ago
    not sure though because the highest paying jobs (google, unicorns.. etc) are also considered the "coolest" by many.
    - timavr 8y ago
      I think Google used to be "cool", but it is more prestige now. There is definitely still cool areas which Google works on(AI, self-driving), but overall, if you are working on Gmail, there is nothing cool about it and the main motivation is not to make Gmail more awesome, but to get paid and beef your resume for future work opportunities. Unicorns vary, but mostly they are B2B enterprise companies, which do very boring stuff day to day. But something like Discord will be exciting for many people to work at.
      - alkibiades 8y ago
        hm, i guess I wasn't differentiating between prestige and coolness as they both lead to high demand for the position. I wonder why coolness leads to worse conditions but prestige doesn't.
travisoneill1 8y ago
Disabled veterans should be given generous benefits. These benefits are owed to them by the government for the services they provided to the government. Private companies have no responsibility for this.
- tylersmith 8y ago
  And from the government they should get exactly what they signed a contract for. Nothing more or less.
xenadu02 8y ago
Tesla seems to be working very hard to cultivate a really poor reputation. They could find it more difficult to hire in the future. Maybe that doesn’t matter for assembly jobs but software engineers don’t grow on trees.
- smileysteve 8y ago
  The context of the layoffs should have every tesla employee and owner worried. As the spring debt comes due, without more investors or more profitability, the company is very likely to change. Also consider that gm, Ford, fiat aren't in a market or cash position to consolidate. The best hopes for Tesla may be Toyota, VW, or Aapl right now.
purplezooey 8y ago
It's sad, though, how we need to build a lot more housing so the rent is not in the stratosphere for everyone. We don't need a green new deal, we need a housing Manhattan project.
- jswizzy 8y ago
  How? You can't build too densely in an earthquake zone. And you can't move because the thing that makes Silicon Valley special is that CA's constitution makes non compete clauses null and void so that venture capitalists and startups can form with little worry of being sued by the companies that they are trying to disrupt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause#California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause#California
  - intopieces 8y ago
    >You can't build too densely in an earthquake zone. And yet Tokyo exists.
    - carlivar 8y ago
      And Mexico City
hailhash 8y ago
This twitter account has all the classic signs of troll/bot. Wonder how it made it to hacker news. After years of read-only mode, having to create a new account to bring this to people’s attention. Please check the Twitter timeline for yourself before jumping to conclusions. I hate Tesla as much as the next guy, but this story needs to be checked out before upvoting.
- dakota-plaza 8y ago
  Not only is this account suspicious but also some of those that replied to it.
hindsightbias 8y ago
Has anyone ever alleged that Tesla or SpaceX treat their employees in some out-of-the-ordinary admirable way? Wondering what the outrage is going to be when cash rich FAANGs start acting like the rest of Fortune 495.
taneq 8y ago
This is a bit of a tangent but what is with people posting long-form stories on Twitter, a platform whose defining feature is you say what you have to say in 140 characters? Just blog it somewhere and post a link!
longcommonname 8y ago
Theres a very good chance Tesla got a large tax break for hiring vets. This has been true for a while. They could be trying to abuse this be having a rolling hiring of vets. But anybody saying that Tesla owes nothing doesn't realize that there are employee protections out there.
stevenjohns 8y ago
It's pretty crazy to see rationalizations here for reversing the signing bonus and annual bonus. I can't in good faith ever do that to a high-performing employee I'm making redundant.
- the_narrator 8y ago
  > I can't in good faith ever do that to a high-performing employee I'm making redundant. How virtuous of you. What about a mediocre performing one?
  - Traster 8y ago
    A mediocre performing employee shouldn't be getting an annual bonus.
- kamaal 8y ago
  >>I can't in good faith That's the problem ain't it. Some exec higher up management is offered some delta money incentive, above their regular bonus to make this kind of stuff happen. Very likely they think having some extra money as bonus(due to cost savings) is more than ok, to buy that expensive home in Menlo Park- If it takes screwing a few hundred/thousand employees along the way. Nobody ever does Judas work unless there are gold coins to receive in return for nailing the unsuspecting through their limbs.
acroback 8y ago
People get laid off all the time. Business is not hostage to your performance. In the end we all are just numbers of the XL sheet. Treat your company just like one. All the talk about mission reeks of naivety. Seriously, I can understand the emotional outburst but it is unnecessary.
ojn 8y ago
Ex-Tesla employee here. I'm not going to comment on any of the statements because I know nothing of it, but I wanted to give one angle to the "performance bonus not paid out": Like most employers, Tesla gives out a mix of raises, bonuses and equity renewals at times based on reviews/merit/etc. Some of them, like equity, vest over 4 years. That's normal, etc. But, Tesla is the only employer I know of where you had an option to pick stock, options, or cash, as the vesting entity. Cash wasn't always offered, but I know it to have been an option at least once. I don't know if that's what happened here, but it might be part of why someone thought of it as "earned bonus with delayed payout" when in reality it might not have been. I can't tell, but I wanted to mention the possibility.
- droithomme 8y ago
  > Some of them, like equity, vest over 4 years. That's normal, etc. It is absolutely not normal to have raises and bonuses "vest over four years". I've never encountered that or heard of that at any company at all. The only reasonable way to describe that would be "highly abnormal", not normal.
  - ojn 8y ago
    I said that there was an option to get retention grant as stock, options or cash (usually just the two former but at least once all three were available). Nothing about raises or bonuses being over 4 years. I actually can't remember getting any bonuses, just salary adjustments and retention/equity refresh.
  - ssgao 8y ago
    It is pretty normal in Bay Area. All tech companies package are like that.
  - minhazm 8y ago
    It definitely is normal. It's how equity grants work in tech. At annual review time you may get a salary increase and an equity "refresher" that also has a 4 yr vesting period.
simplecomplex 8y ago
Let’s not allow tweetstorms about personal drama on HN. What’s the point of policing the comments with an iron fist if the links are a free-for-all!? It’s such a weird dichotomy to be hellbanning people for being snarky while every day the front page is filled with flame bait.
tibbydudeza 8y ago
>Should the company be forced to keep paying redundant >employees as some form of social justice or obligation? Well that is an American point of view where companies are there for shareholders profits only. Fortunately here and elsewhere in the world we have good laws in place where a company needs to notify an affected employee or section of an impending layoff so that you have at least time to find alternative employment. We also get one week of pay for each year worked as part of your redundancy.
dmode 8y ago
I think companies should be allowed to lay-off people. The lay-off process should be fair. A few months of salary to sustain, paid off bonuses due, RSUs about to be vested etc. Don’t cancel perf bonus or RSU vesting by laying off people a week before they are due. That is just straight up evil.
mactyler 8y ago
Just to clear up a specific point that I see a lot of people getting wrong here about the bonus stuff. I can at least say for the performance bonus it seems weird but thats how it works. Even though its money to reward your performance in “the past” so you’ve effectively “earned it”, if you quit like I did or get fired apparenty if it hasn’t hit the date that it gets paid to you yet you don’t get it. I think most people get surprised by this fact but since that specific situation is fairly rare I don’t think theres much effort to change the policy. I don’t even know what the policy really is, but just wanted to say that part at least of losing the entire performance bonus happened to me. But since I quit I think it’s more reasonable to lose it, that’s pretty lame to lose it when you’re fired since I had the time to factor that into my decision making knowing I would lose it where when you are fired and blindsided like that you are effectively losing a lot of money that you had already accounted for. I know corporations aren’t really dictated by emotion, but man it sure seems like there’s a lot of “bad luck” all at once here... that is really unfortunate. Maybe some rules could be changed to prevent certain things overlapping up like this. Getting fired is one thing, but getting fired and losing money you had already accounted for and technically “earned” is definitely putting you in an even harder spot. Really wish him the best. Also this isnt like tesla is going out of their way to screw this guy, these are just standard industry practices, but hearing situations like these definitely makes you wonder if they should be. Also just to clear up some lingo for people that I still see people getting wrong: Signing bonus Cash sum you “recieve” for accepting the job. Performance bonus Cash sum you recieve several months after you’re latest performance review based on your “rating” for that half or year. Equity (RSU) is seperate from both of these things but you can receive them in both situations. They then follow a vesting schedule that when you leave before the various vest dates its obvious that you wont receive the compensation.
Gustomaximus 8y ago
Side points; - Justified or not his wife might be jeopardising her husbands future employment with her tweets. Any new employer has to consider what if I have to fire him again for whatever reason. You're risking angry wife dragging you/company through the media. No-one wants that regardless of being in the right or not. - She says 'I'm not covered by NDA' and brings up information about about pay/benefits etc. She might be creating an issue here if Tesla wants to push back. It pretty obvious he husband told her those things so while its normal to discuss with your wife, is that an NDA breach on his behalf? I think this is a good lesson in biting your tongue and focusing on the end game. Howl at the moon but not social media. She can't possibly think this rant will help him keep his job, get a better payout or get a new job.
- cryptonector 8y ago
  Maybe she thinks that she can cause Tesla a PR event. If she can, she may well get what she's after (an apology? the 2018 bonus? the rest of the as-yet-unvested sign-on bonus?).
sjg007 8y ago
This is why you pay the bonuses and pay the severance and pay the health insurance for 6 months. That way you don’t act like an asshole.
rajman187 8y ago
hindsight is 20/20 but: - believing in Elon Musk - having 0 savings and wanting to immediately spend any theoretical savings - wanting to live in NYC and then SF despite no savings - having a child despite the above 2 - apparently not reading an employment contract before signing it - venting on twitter in the hopes that hashtag-shaming of Musk will achieve anything
daveFNbuck 8y ago
> They took his laptop 10 minutes after he found out and he couldn’t save his personal files. I have a hard time understanding why people put personal files on a company laptop, much less ones that you don't also have stored elsewhere. This is what you should expect to happen.
droithomme 8y ago
The lady needs to consult with a labor attorney as soon as possible. They should not sign anything until after that meeting.
chemmail 8y ago
All irrelevant. The firing was nothing personal. Tesla needs to stay alive. These people can either all suffer minority now, or whole company suffer later.
mhkool 8y ago
cancelling the bonus is evil. Tesla, shame on you !!! I am not gonna buy your cars.

234 points by inarrears 8y ago

woah 8y ago

They should feel honored that he was allowed to share a building with Elon Musk. So ungrateful.

anu7df 8y ago
You forgot the sarcasm tag.

notus 8y ago

It is not very surprising when companies behave this way. They act in their own interest which oftentimes aligns with employee interests, but not always. I'm pretty sure the only way to guarantee more ethical behavior is to regulate it.

gpm 8y ago
It surprises me that a company as reliant on good will as Tesla is would do this. Literally every part of Tesla's business is relying on good will. Employees working hard for substandard wages. Customers buying luxury vehicles and sticking down deposits years in advance. Politicians creating subsidies and buying grid scale batteries. Etc. It's unlikely that this move (cutting the bonuses of everyone laid off) has saved Tesla more money than this one post hitting hacker news cost them.
- mcny 8y ago
  Even as I read this, I am aware that I’m desperately trying to rationalize Tesla’s actions. I’m pretty sure I will be able to do it shortly. My guess is Tesla’s goodwill is safe for now.
  - bjl 8y ago
    This is Musk's PR budget in action, folks.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
denormalfloat 8y ago
..Or they could have interests more aligned. I would like to see more companies pay in stock rather than cash. That would mean sharing in company profits, and having a vote in company policies. If companies didn't pay dividends or give voting shares, that would be a reason to pick another company.
- tensor 8y ago
  I've seen so many posts here complaining about how stock is worthless and please just give them cash. You literally can't win against the mob.
- monksy 8y ago
  The stocks typically given are non-voting shares.
hoaw 8y ago
Unfortunately I don’t believe regulation would work in this case. Not because it wouldn’t be effective, but because it wouldn’t happen. People tend to wonder why e.g. Nordic unions are so strong. It is because they have real power. They have organizations, newspapers, building, cash and everything else that you need. The prime minister of Sweden was even recruited directly from being the head of a union, because of that unions long standing relationship with the party. This is why I always smirk a little bit when Americans speak out against unions like they actually would have a choice to form a an organization that would take power from the corporations and politicians. Eh, I don’t know what my point was. I guess I wouldn’t expect a solution anytime soon because it is a power issue.
- unreal37 8y ago
  But this is also why Silicon Valley didn't happen in Norway.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Norway is probably better off by not having Silicon Valley.
  - hoaw 8y ago
    No, it isn’t. SV didn’t happen anywhere in Europe, very likely because of WWII. Norway is mostly concerned about oil these days, but Sweden have been doing very well in tech for its size. Second most unicorn per capita in the world after SV is what people like to say.
    - monksy 8y ago
      Not even close. It's all down to culture and where their priorities lie. If WWII is any indication, the Germans would be very good at developing new tech. (They did it during the war) I believe that the reason why Europe has not had a good chance at a SV: 1. They don't rely on credit for the most part. Using Debit/EC cards are more previlent. 2. High taxes and cheap sources of labor: Most tech is outsourced to Eastern Europe. There is some seriously good talent there, but there's a heck of a lot that isn't great. The treatement of talent is used as a cheap cog in the machine. Hard to hire the best talent when the wages are at a particular level. 3. Strong labor unions and policies: Germany requires companies over a particular size to have representation from the labor force on the board. (This has created the wackamole in companies splitting off) 4. The regulations and monopolies are pretty strong in Europe: it's hard to compete and overthrow say sap or mediamarkt. (Although those are prime for a disruption). 5. Companies play fast and loose there. Due to strong workers rights, they're still playing tricks to prevent people from being full time. (Contractors, probation periods, etc)

i_am_nomad 8y ago

The last bit about having to sign an NDA sounds very legally questionable.

shereadsthenews 8y ago
If he got no consideration for it, he’s not bound by it. Never sign anything when you’re being fired unless they offer you money and in that case ask for much more than they open with.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  > Never sign anything when you’re being fired unless they offer you money and in that case ask for much more than they open with. +1 I'm not even having a conversation unless the topic is how much they're going to pay for further interaction upon being fired without notice, let alone signing anything. Pants are immediately coming off, and plans are made to head to the beach.
- Reedx 8y ago
  > ...and in that case ask for much more than they open with. Have you (or anyone reading this) done that? What was the result?
  - simplecomplex 8y ago
    What’s the downside? If someone is fired giving the company anything for free is throwing money away. I had a boss at a startup let me know I was being let go with two weeks notice. I immediately asked for $20k or else I would walk out without helping anyone transition. He gave me the $20k (1/5th of my salary!!)
freerobby 8y ago
She issued a correction on Twitter: only the employer-sponsored health insurance is contingent on signing the NDA, not the 60 days of salary. > Because I’m not a labor attorney I got this part wrong the first twelve times I read it. (Legalese amirite?) If we don’t sign, they pull 60 days health insurance but not the actual payroll. Not complete horse shit but still horse shitty. /end correction https://twitter.com/_KariedAway_/status/1087148173984903169 https://twitter.com/_KariedAway_/status/1087148173984903169

dominotw 8y ago

> We are barely making ends meet. Wow. This is people working at high tech companies in bay area. Why are they being paid subsistence salaries. Too many people flooding into bay area? Why are ppl accepting such low salaries. So strange to me as an outsider. Whats the end game, just tough it out for a few yrs and build your resume and then get out?

stuart78 8y ago
A big part of it is just how expensive it is to live here. She mentions 3k on rent, for example. Kids are expensive as well, so while salaries can often appear high, the costs often scale to match. As she also mentions, it sounds like a large part of his total compensation was tied up in bonuses, which can be great when they work out well, but are much more discretionary than salary, as the story indicates.
- dominotw 8y ago
  > As she also mentions, it sounds like a large part of his total compensation was tied up in bonuses, which can be great when they work out well, but are much more discretionary than salary, as the story indicates. Sounds like they took a gamble and didn't work out. also is this a scam? https://www.gofundme.com/help-kari-pollock039s-family https://www.gofundme.com/help-kari-pollock039s-family
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    I don't think it's fair to rationalize poor labor practices. If they had paid out this worker's remaining sign up bonus and his 2018 performance bonus, we would've likely never heard of this. I know I won't recommend Tesla vehicles to anyone anymore (this is the final publicized labor issue "straw" as a customer). And if Tesla is so cash strapped they couldn't pay that comp out for folks to move on mostly whole (60 days severance, remaining bonuses due, COBRA), management needs to be replaced with someone who can properly forecast cashflow, and more to the point, manage a business of this scale appropriately. EDIT: I have reported the GoFundMe campaign you mention to have the organizer verified.

willart4food 8y ago

The (new) American dream is a rnd() function

m1sta_ 8y ago
That'd be an improvement for many people compared to the status quo.
- willart4food 8y ago
  Maybe. I feel that "calculated risk" is no risk at all. Blindly taking chances "just do it" fashion with no clue about possible consequences it's not very smart, especially since most decisions affect someone else negatively. There's randomness in life, no doubt about it. We can account for it: plan B, realist optimism, etc... But "hoping" that it will all happen just because of sheer luck... I don't think it's smart. For instance, I think this is what happened to FYRE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyre_Festival https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyre_Festival), there's a great documentary on Netflix. I cringed.
gammateam 8y ago
At what point wasnt it? The periods of economic growth and large scale upwards mobility that people like to point to in order to support their indoctrination were the also happening worldwide almost as soon as trade was liberalized.

wavee 8y ago

But what's her actual point? They're not allowed to fire disabled veterans? You get to keep receiving bonuses after firing? "A signing bonus or sign-on bonus is a sum of money paid to a new employee by a company as an incentive to join that company. To encourage employees to stay at the organization, there are often clauses in the contract whereby if the employee quits before a specified period, they must return the signing bonus."

olliej 8y ago
There’s a difference between quitting and being laid off, you know that right?
daeken 8y ago
Retracting a sign-on bonus when you're laying someone off -- rather than them quitting or being terminated for cause -- is wrong. That's tantamount to wage theft, IMO. Reversing someone's yearly bonus after the fact is just as bad.
- matz1 8y ago
  Its not wrong unless the contract specifically says being laid off as exception.
  - daeken 8y ago
    Just because something isn't illegal/breach of contract doesn't mean it's right.
    - tylersmith 8y ago
      Then they shouldn't have agreed to it.
      - SolaceQuantum 8y ago
        It shouldn't be wrong to assume that a contracted amount of money will actually be given to you without an added assessment that "if I'm laid off I should still get that money". Contracts cannot be used the same way one can code defensively, because when humans are involved defensive moves are also hostile moves- and the only way keeping the negotiations going is leverage on both sides.

longhorn_alum 8y ago

Meanwhile in the real world....

daeken 8y ago
I see you're a recent joiner of the site and have another comment much like this one. For what it's worth, I suggest reading the community guidelines, as you'll see why this is getting downvoted: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

vjeux 8y ago

It sounds like the sign on bonus she’s referring to vests over 4 years. Unless I’m mistaken, this is an initial stock grant and you only get the full amount if you stay with the company for 4 years.

wavee 8y ago
And they were probably well aware about this when he joined. He must have signed and agreed to those terms.
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  Wasn't it Amazon where they routinely fire people a few months before the vesting date?
mygo 8y ago
It always bothered me when people who wanted me to join their startup were bothered by me not wanting wait for something to vest that long. So you mean to tell me I can do all the work you need me to do right now, and then just get rid of me before it vests and I don't get it? I really think there should be 2 different vesting terms - 1 in case I quit (can be longer term in this case) - and another in case I get fired (shorter vesting period IMO). Call it early termination.
- underwater 8y ago
  So now everyone who wants to leave the company will be a negative force, hoping to be fired. Not such a great idea. Vesting is fine as a concept. Just understand that whatever dollar amount to they're telling you is something you have the chance to earn over a period of time. It's not a bonus.
  - dingaling 8y ago
    So it's not a bonus, it's a loaded roll of the dice? I think there is merit in having immediate vesting in the case of no-fault dismissal. It's the company choosing to terminate the contract unliaterally, the employee has fulfilled his part of the deal.

ordinaryperson 8y ago

It's possible her husband got railroaded, however it's also possible he did not. Impossible to tell from this tweetstorm. First, being a disabled veteran does not preclude you from being laid off. And as many others in this thread have pointed out, the "sign on bonus" she appears to reference apparently vests over 4 years, which is not that uncommon. She says: > "We’re shattered. Devasted. And fucking broke. @Tesla, shame on you. I know lay offs are a part of life, but you really took the low road and kicked your loyal employee in the balls when he was down." Just to play Devil's Advocate for a minute, what if companies were prevented from firing or laying off employees because of the financial situation of the employee? Should the company be forced to keep paying redundant employees as some form of social justice or obligation? Look -- this is not a judgment on her, her husband, or their family. Maybe what happened to this couple is a complete travesty, maybe Tesla is some horrible evil mega-corporation and they should feel ashamed over the situation. However it's also possible her husband was in a department that was no longer needed or maybe even he underperformed his colleagues -- there's no way of knowing from this tweetstorm. What I dislike is this presumption on HN that just because someone tweeted out his/her spouse got laid off by a tech giant that it's automatically some immediate miscarriage of justice. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. There's no way of knowing from the evidence in front of us. I wish the mods of HN were more judicious in accepting these kind of one-sided screeds.

Apocryphon 8y ago
> Should the company be forced to keep paying redundant employees as some form of social justice or obligation? One would presume that much of the current agitation in the body populace regardless of political stripe would be mollified by such an attempt. The life expectancy may even rise.
threeseed 8y ago
Redundancies are a natural part of business and working life. It's how you do them that is important and it revolves around treating people with dignity. Give them notice, allow them time to say goodbye to others, don't escort them out the building, don't make them sign NDAs etc. Most companies do not have the spouses of former employees jump on Twitter to complain. So the mere fact it has happened means something went wrong from Tesla HR.

simplysimple 8y ago

I feel sympathy for anyone that loses a job without cause...but being disabled or a veteran does not convey any special rights on you.

iamleppert 8y ago

Her story is heartbreaking, and reminds me that once a company is “done with you” they don’t care about you anymore regardless of what kind of employee you were. Never expect a company to do right by you. Always act in your own best interests, even if those are not in alignment with the company. If working in the Bay Area has taught me anything, is you always need to be planning your next move. There is no such thing as job security in our present economy. Working at a large company is often times even more dangerous than a small one or startup because decisions like this which are made far away from your own sphere of influence. Companies are like sociopaths: they have no capacity for empathy, and if any does exist, it’s likely been legislated into them, taken from them by force or by public shame. If there are any companies left that actually do treat their employees like anything more than disposable assets, it’s only a matter of time before they are “disrupted” by one that is willing to do whatever it takes. Capitalism is a perverse force that cares only for efficiency, not for human lives.

rdl 8y ago

I'd argue for paying at least pro-rata signing bonus in the event of a not-for-cause termination like a layoff. Probably for letting the employee keep the entire signing bonus in this case. (More likely yes if it's a lower level employee, less likely if it's a very senior executive and a larger amount, but those are more often in equity or explicitly to make up for lost options in a previous company.) Otherwise, yes, termination and NDA/non-disparagement are fine. She has every right to be upset, but isn't really helping her case with irrelevant details. DV status is irrelevant to civilian employer. Performance bonus would depend on the terms. Was it a 2018 bonus for work in 2018, with a payout date in 2019? In that case, if terminated for cause (or quit), sure, don't pay, but they should pay for a layoff. Again, above the legal requirement, so making it conditional on NDA/nondisparagement is fine.

cowsandmilk 8y ago
> More likely yes if it's a lower level employee, less likely if it's a very senior executive and a larger amount, but those are more often in equity or explicitly to make up for lost options in a previous company. The thing is, the higher level employees are the ones most likely to have brought in a lawyer to review their employment agreement and to have negotiated explicitly for getting a clause for this type of payout if they are let go. These are often referred to as a golden parachute or golden handshake... Basically, fire someone near the top, whose mismanagement is likely responsible for problems, you have to pay out the nose; fire a low level employee, you pay next to nothing.

timavr 8y ago

Somehow the jobs which you want to do the most in tech screw you the hardest. Like if you do back-end database boring stuff of moving data around at random Enterprise X, then you can charge through the roof because they know that the only reason you are doing this job is for the paycheck. But if you are working on video games/Tesla/Other cool stuff and obviously passionate about the mission, you get screwed on compensation and if things go wrong, treated inhumanely. Also, why treat people like shit when they get laid off. Can't just manager meet with the person and say, hey our division got cut, I am sorry it turned out that way, happy to help out with the job search.

pfranz 8y ago
At one place I worked we called it the "cool job tax" because it was mostly reflected in salary.
- alkibiades 8y ago
  not sure though because the highest paying jobs (google, unicorns.. etc) are also considered the "coolest" by many.
  - timavr 8y ago
    I think Google used to be "cool", but it is more prestige now. There is definitely still cool areas which Google works on(AI, self-driving), but overall, if you are working on Gmail, there is nothing cool about it and the main motivation is not to make Gmail more awesome, but to get paid and beef your resume for future work opportunities. Unicorns vary, but mostly they are B2B enterprise companies, which do very boring stuff day to day. But something like Discord will be exciting for many people to work at.
    - alkibiades 8y ago
      hm, i guess I wasn't differentiating between prestige and coolness as they both lead to high demand for the position. I wonder why coolness leads to worse conditions but prestige doesn't.

travisoneill1 8y ago

Disabled veterans should be given generous benefits. These benefits are owed to them by the government for the services they provided to the government. Private companies have no responsibility for this.

tylersmith 8y ago
And from the government they should get exactly what they signed a contract for. Nothing more or less.

xenadu02 8y ago

Tesla seems to be working very hard to cultivate a really poor reputation. They could find it more difficult to hire in the future. Maybe that doesn’t matter for assembly jobs but software engineers don’t grow on trees.

smileysteve 8y ago
The context of the layoffs should have every tesla employee and owner worried. As the spring debt comes due, without more investors or more profitability, the company is very likely to change. Also consider that gm, Ford, fiat aren't in a market or cash position to consolidate. The best hopes for Tesla may be Toyota, VW, or Aapl right now.

purplezooey 8y ago

It's sad, though, how we need to build a lot more housing so the rent is not in the stratosphere for everyone. We don't need a green new deal, we need a housing Manhattan project.

jswizzy 8y ago
How? You can't build too densely in an earthquake zone. And you can't move because the thing that makes Silicon Valley special is that CA's constitution makes non compete clauses null and void so that venture capitalists and startups can form with little worry of being sued by the companies that they are trying to disrupt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause#California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause#California
- intopieces 8y ago
  >You can't build too densely in an earthquake zone. And yet Tokyo exists.
  - carlivar 8y ago
    And Mexico City

hailhash 8y ago

This twitter account has all the classic signs of troll/bot. Wonder how it made it to hacker news. After years of read-only mode, having to create a new account to bring this to people’s attention. Please check the Twitter timeline for yourself before jumping to conclusions. I hate Tesla as much as the next guy, but this story needs to be checked out before upvoting.

dakota-plaza 8y ago
Not only is this account suspicious but also some of those that replied to it.

hindsightbias 8y ago

Has anyone ever alleged that Tesla or SpaceX treat their employees in some out-of-the-ordinary admirable way? Wondering what the outrage is going to be when cash rich FAANGs start acting like the rest of Fortune 495.

taneq 8y ago

This is a bit of a tangent but what is with people posting long-form stories on Twitter, a platform whose defining feature is you say what you have to say in 140 characters? Just blog it somewhere and post a link!

longcommonname 8y ago

Theres a very good chance Tesla got a large tax break for hiring vets. This has been true for a while. They could be trying to abuse this be having a rolling hiring of vets. But anybody saying that Tesla owes nothing doesn't realize that there are employee protections out there.

stevenjohns 8y ago

It's pretty crazy to see rationalizations here for reversing the signing bonus and annual bonus. I can't in good faith ever do that to a high-performing employee I'm making redundant.

the_narrator 8y ago
> I can't in good faith ever do that to a high-performing employee I'm making redundant. How virtuous of you. What about a mediocre performing one?
- Traster 8y ago
  A mediocre performing employee shouldn't be getting an annual bonus.
kamaal 8y ago
>>I can't in good faith That's the problem ain't it. Some exec higher up management is offered some delta money incentive, above their regular bonus to make this kind of stuff happen. Very likely they think having some extra money as bonus(due to cost savings) is more than ok, to buy that expensive home in Menlo Park- If it takes screwing a few hundred/thousand employees along the way. Nobody ever does Judas work unless there are gold coins to receive in return for nailing the unsuspecting through their limbs.

acroback 8y ago

People get laid off all the time. Business is not hostage to your performance. In the end we all are just numbers of the XL sheet. Treat your company just like one. All the talk about mission reeks of naivety. Seriously, I can understand the emotional outburst but it is unnecessary.

ojn 8y ago

Ex-Tesla employee here. I'm not going to comment on any of the statements because I know nothing of it, but I wanted to give one angle to the "performance bonus not paid out": Like most employers, Tesla gives out a mix of raises, bonuses and equity renewals at times based on reviews/merit/etc. Some of them, like equity, vest over 4 years. That's normal, etc. But, Tesla is the only employer I know of where you had an option to pick stock, options, or cash, as the vesting entity. Cash wasn't always offered, but I know it to have been an option at least once. I don't know if that's what happened here, but it might be part of why someone thought of it as "earned bonus with delayed payout" when in reality it might not have been. I can't tell, but I wanted to mention the possibility.

droithomme 8y ago
> Some of them, like equity, vest over 4 years. That's normal, etc. It is absolutely not normal to have raises and bonuses "vest over four years". I've never encountered that or heard of that at any company at all. The only reasonable way to describe that would be "highly abnormal", not normal.
- ojn 8y ago
  I said that there was an option to get retention grant as stock, options or cash (usually just the two former but at least once all three were available). Nothing about raises or bonuses being over 4 years. I actually can't remember getting any bonuses, just salary adjustments and retention/equity refresh.
- ssgao 8y ago
  It is pretty normal in Bay Area. All tech companies package are like that.
- minhazm 8y ago
  It definitely is normal. It's how equity grants work in tech. At annual review time you may get a salary increase and an equity "refresher" that also has a 4 yr vesting period.

simplecomplex 8y ago

Let’s not allow tweetstorms about personal drama on HN. What’s the point of policing the comments with an iron fist if the links are a free-for-all!? It’s such a weird dichotomy to be hellbanning people for being snarky while every day the front page is filled with flame bait.

tibbydudeza 8y ago

>Should the company be forced to keep paying redundant >employees as some form of social justice or obligation? Well that is an American point of view where companies are there for shareholders profits only. Fortunately here and elsewhere in the world we have good laws in place where a company needs to notify an affected employee or section of an impending layoff so that you have at least time to find alternative employment. We also get one week of pay for each year worked as part of your redundancy.

dmode 8y ago

I think companies should be allowed to lay-off people. The lay-off process should be fair. A few months of salary to sustain, paid off bonuses due, RSUs about to be vested etc. Don’t cancel perf bonus or RSU vesting by laying off people a week before they are due. That is just straight up evil.

mactyler 8y ago

Just to clear up a specific point that I see a lot of people getting wrong here about the bonus stuff. I can at least say for the performance bonus it seems weird but thats how it works. Even though its money to reward your performance in “the past” so you’ve effectively “earned it”, if you quit like I did or get fired apparenty if it hasn’t hit the date that it gets paid to you yet you don’t get it. I think most people get surprised by this fact but since that specific situation is fairly rare I don’t think theres much effort to change the policy. I don’t even know what the policy really is, but just wanted to say that part at least of losing the entire performance bonus happened to me. But since I quit I think it’s more reasonable to lose it, that’s pretty lame to lose it when you’re fired since I had the time to factor that into my decision making knowing I would lose it where when you are fired and blindsided like that you are effectively losing a lot of money that you had already accounted for. I know corporations aren’t really dictated by emotion, but man it sure seems like there’s a lot of “bad luck” all at once here... that is really unfortunate. Maybe some rules could be changed to prevent certain things overlapping up like this. Getting fired is one thing, but getting fired and losing money you had already accounted for and technically “earned” is definitely putting you in an even harder spot. Really wish him the best. Also this isnt like tesla is going out of their way to screw this guy, these are just standard industry practices, but hearing situations like these definitely makes you wonder if they should be. Also just to clear up some lingo for people that I still see people getting wrong: Signing bonus Cash sum you “recieve” for accepting the job. Performance bonus Cash sum you recieve several months after you’re latest performance review based on your “rating” for that half or year. Equity (RSU) is seperate from both of these things but you can receive them in both situations. They then follow a vesting schedule that when you leave before the various vest dates its obvious that you wont receive the compensation.

Gustomaximus 8y ago

Side points; - Justified or not his wife might be jeopardising her husbands future employment with her tweets. Any new employer has to consider what if I have to fire him again for whatever reason. You're risking angry wife dragging you/company through the media. No-one wants that regardless of being in the right or not. - She says 'I'm not covered by NDA' and brings up information about about pay/benefits etc. She might be creating an issue here if Tesla wants to push back. It pretty obvious he husband told her those things so while its normal to discuss with your wife, is that an NDA breach on his behalf? I think this is a good lesson in biting your tongue and focusing on the end game. Howl at the moon but not social media. She can't possibly think this rant will help him keep his job, get a better payout or get a new job.

cryptonector 8y ago
Maybe she thinks that she can cause Tesla a PR event. If she can, she may well get what she's after (an apology? the 2018 bonus? the rest of the as-yet-unvested sign-on bonus?).

sjg007 8y ago

This is why you pay the bonuses and pay the severance and pay the health insurance for 6 months. That way you don’t act like an asshole.

rajman187 8y ago

hindsight is 20/20 but: - believing in Elon Musk - having 0 savings and wanting to immediately spend any theoretical savings - wanting to live in NYC and then SF despite no savings - having a child despite the above 2 - apparently not reading an employment contract before signing it - venting on twitter in the hopes that hashtag-shaming of Musk will achieve anything

daveFNbuck 8y ago

> They took his laptop 10 minutes after he found out and he couldn’t save his personal files. I have a hard time understanding why people put personal files on a company laptop, much less ones that you don't also have stored elsewhere. This is what you should expect to happen.

droithomme 8y ago

The lady needs to consult with a labor attorney as soon as possible. They should not sign anything until after that meeting.

chemmail 8y ago

All irrelevant. The firing was nothing personal. Tesla needs to stay alive. These people can either all suffer minority now, or whole company suffer later.

mhkool 8y ago

cancelling the bonus is evil. Tesla, shame on you !!! I am not gonna buy your cars.