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I never used Docker Swarm (so can't compare), but I don't fully understand your point about Kubernetes cloud lock-in. Certainly there are important differences

I never used Docker Swarm (so can't compare), but I don't fully understand your point about Kubernetes cloud lock-in. Certainly there are important differences in networking, load balancing, persistent volumes, and other cloud features, but that's not something any platform can just hide/eliminate (e.g. think about AWS ELB/ALB/NLB vs Google Load Balancer). The Kubernetes concepts (Deployment, Ingress, Service) still work mostly the same for the user across clouds. Some other details like non-standardized Ingress annotations are obviously due to not having them agreed in Kubernetes core API (nginx ingress supports other annotations than say Google LB or Skipper).

bonesss 8y ago
Most of the kubernetes toolchain provides nice support for delineating the requirements from separate cloud providers, too. Compared to most alternatives, a little HELM magic to support hybrid cloud installations is a piece of cake.
fhrow4484 8y ago
> I don't fully understand your point about Kubernetes cloud lock-in The kubernetes folks describe a tentative solution to cloud lock-in here: https://kubernetes.io/docs/concepts/cluster-administration/federation/#why-federation https://kubernetes.io/docs/concepts/cluster-administration/f... OP isn't the only one with those concerns. It would be nice when you can switch your cluster load from any of the cloud providers, or your own on-prem setup as you go. For instance, I could see people wanting to have a default small cluster on their on-prem setup, and be ready to scale on cloud when needed.
- dankohn1 8y ago
  Federation is a solution for multi-cloud and hybrid cloud, which is a different problem than cloud portability.
- parasubvert 8y ago
  Kubernetes federation doesn’t really help with lock-in. Its for multi-cluster management. It’s also kind of stalled / going to be rethought - it has too many issues to be used at scale. Some may still like it of course. There are two points of lock-in: beneath Kubernetes or on top of Kubernetes. You still need to install and manage your cluster, so the low level lock-in of a distro is hard to avoid. What you may be looking for is kubeadm. https://kubernetes.io/docs/reference/setup-tools/kubeadm/kubeadm/ https://kubernetes.io/docs/reference/setup-tools/kubeadm/kub... It is the closest primitive to help standardize “here’s how to install and run a K8s cluster in a certified way”. It’s unfortunately incomplete. As for what’s on top of Kubernetes, that will be an area ripe for completion and lock-in.

bonesss 8y ago

Most of the kubernetes toolchain provides nice support for delineating the requirements from separate cloud providers, too. Compared to most alternatives, a little HELM magic to support hybrid cloud installations is a piece of cake.

fhrow4484 8y ago

> I don't fully understand your point about Kubernetes cloud lock-in The kubernetes folks describe a tentative solution to cloud lock-in here: https://kubernetes.io/docs/concepts/cluster-administration/federation/#why-federation https://kubernetes.io/docs/concepts/cluster-administration/f... OP isn't the only one with those concerns. It would be nice when you can switch your cluster load from any of the cloud providers, or your own on-prem setup as you go. For instance, I could see people wanting to have a default small cluster on their on-prem setup, and be ready to scale on cloud when needed.

dankohn1 8y ago
Federation is a solution for multi-cloud and hybrid cloud, which is a different problem than cloud portability.
parasubvert 8y ago
Kubernetes federation doesn’t really help with lock-in. Its for multi-cluster management. It’s also kind of stalled / going to be rethought - it has too many issues to be used at scale. Some may still like it of course. There are two points of lock-in: beneath Kubernetes or on top of Kubernetes. You still need to install and manage your cluster, so the low level lock-in of a distro is hard to avoid. What you may be looking for is kubeadm. https://kubernetes.io/docs/reference/setup-tools/kubeadm/kubeadm/ https://kubernetes.io/docs/reference/setup-tools/kubeadm/kub... It is the closest primitive to help standardize “here’s how to install and run a K8s cluster in a certified way”. It’s unfortunately incomplete. As for what’s on top of Kubernetes, that will be an area ripe for completion and lock-in.