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A high-carb diet may explain why Okinawans live so long
- youeseh 8y agoI suspect that staying slim and trim leads to longevity, regardless of diet, be it high carb or high fat.
- thrav 8y ago+ Socially active and supported
- magic_beans 8y ago> Genetic good fortune could be one important factor. Thanks to the geography of the islands, Okinawa’s populations have spent large chunks of their history in relative isolation, which may has given them a unique genetic profile. Preliminary studies suggest this may include a reduced prevalence of a gene variant – APOE4 – that appears to increase the risk of heart disease and Alzheimer’s. Their high-carb diet has nothing to do with Okinawan longevity. Genes are the most important factor. This article is ridiculous click-bait.
- vannevar 8y agoThe use of "high-carb" is also misleading. As described in the article, the Okinawan diet is mostly vegetarian, and calorie-restricted, not really what comes to mind when you hear the phrase "high-carb," though it might be technically correct.
- appleiigs 8y agoI downvoted you. The fact that the article raised the point shows they understand your point - baseless attack calling it click bait.
- goodmachine 8y agoWell, that's settled then. No need for data, I trust you.
- scottlocklin 8y agoDo Okinawans who emigrate to, say, America show similar longevity? Virtually all articles on longevity and diet are click bait.
- tmm84 8y agoWell, they do have evidence of Japanese emigrating to Hawaii and getting standard US health problems. Also when US fast food became popular in Okinawa the young people who ate it regularly developed US health problems. (Plenty of videos on YouTube about this as well as articles.) It is about what you absorb instead of what you put in mouth.
- nonbel 8y ago> "Despite the popularity of the Atkins and Paleo diets, however, there is minimal evidence that high-protein diets really do bring about long-term benefits. So could the “Okinawan Ratio” – 10:1 carbohydrate to protein – instead be the secret to a long and healthy life?" In the low-carb diet you are mostly replacing calories from carbs with calories from fat. Not sure why they are focused on this carb to protein ratio. > "The traditional Okinawan diet is therefore dense in the essential vitamins and minerals - including anti-oxidants - but also low in calories. [...] For this reason, some scientists believe that Okinawans offer more evidence for the life-enhancing virtues of a “calorie restricted” diet." Well, the benefit of low-carb is that you crave less food so naturally "calorie-restrict" relative to a high carb diet. So if they are accomplishing this another way it all makes sense (they mention some genetic factors in tfa).
- GreaterFool 8y agoAlso, there's good food and there's bad food. It's hard to find something that you could label 'keto' that's downright terrible (once big food catches on I'm sure there's gonna be a ton of awful 'keto' food). I spend a lot of time in Japan and US. In Japan food is simple, unprocessed, healthy. When I come to US and even though I eat well the food feels like glue in my stomach. And everything has horrible carbs in it. Salads? So much sugar I can barely eat them. Meat? Laced with sugar. I wouldn't mind carbs from vegetables but they get mixed in this sugary garbage and then people come out and say "carbs are good for you" and then you end up fat and unhealthy. Also, when I eat carbs I simply don't feel so good. Keto has been great so I'm going to stick to it. I don't mind going off-keto but I won't touch anything with added sugar. Go to Whole Foods and look at kombucha. Why does it need a ton of sugar? It's hard to find one that doesn't. Or that "healthy" cucumber something something kale juice? Ton of sugar. Yuck.
- danans 8y ago> Go to Whole Foods and look at kombucha. Why does it need a ton of sugar? It needs to ferment in order to become Kombucha, which requires sugar.
- grardb 8y agoAs a vegan who is constantly seeing anti-vegan (or pro-keto) sentiment on HN, it's nice to see a post about a Blue Zone[1]. Interestingly, the Okinawans eat a different sweet potato from the one shown. It's appropriately named the Okinawa sweet potato, and it's purple on the inside, due to having a high antioxidant content similar to blueberries[2]. These are not to be confused with sweet potatoes that are purple on the outside, and often confusingly called Asian sweet potatoes or Japanese sweet potatoes[3]. If you live near an Asian market, you should try looking for the Okinawa sweet potato (I get mine from a Chinese place near my home in LA). It has a very different taste and texture. I personally like to cut them up, steam them, and throw them into a food processor. They develop an interesting pasty texture which I quite like. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone [2] https://www.downtoearth.org/health/nutrition/okinawan-sweet-potato-purple-powerhouse-nutrition https://www.downtoearth.org/health/nutrition/okinawan-sweet-... [3] https://paleoleap.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/japanese-sweet-potatoes.jpg https://paleoleap.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/japanese-sw...
- bufferoverflow 8y agoBlue Zones are not vegan though. The Sicilian one is basically people eating pizzas, pasta with cheese, fish.
- HuShifang 8y agoObviously not vegan. But, according to everything I've read, the so-called "Blue Zones" feature significantly fewer animal products in their diets than shorter-lived regions do in theirs. (And, Sicilians tend not to eat a lot of red meat, if I'm not mistaken. As far as animal products go, cheese and fish come with significantly less baggage in terms of health impacts.)
- ianai 8y agoDo you have anymore recipes for them? I think I’ll stop at an Asian grocery today. But I live off easy recipes.
- 8y ago
- dbingham 8y agoFor the love of all that is holy, can we please just admit that our current methods for studying nutrition _do not work_, that we need better ways to handle this sort of complex system, and the mean time, the best knowledge we have about what constitutes a healthy diet really can just be summed up as "eat food, not too much, mostly plants". The head spinning speed with which new "scientifically supported" diet announcements come out -- which almost always contradict each other -- is almost certainly contributing to the undermining of the lay person's trust in science at this point. We need to stop it, stop trying to apply clearly mismatched tools to this problem and reconsider our whole approach.
- nonbel 8y agoThe idea of "mostly plants" was arrived at using the same methods you don't seem to trust. Why are you ok with that one?
- CamTin 8y agoIt at least has the definite benefit of being less resource-intensive. If you accept the premise that we're just guessing what the right diet is, we may as well guess the "cheapest" option.
- nonbel 8y agoThis has nothing to do with resource consumption, it has to do with health/longevity.
- hirundo 8y agoThe paleo diet is based on a different guess: "As long as we're guessing we may as well guess the options most likely to be compatible with our evolutionary adaptations." This seems completely incompatible with picking the cheapest food, but healthier.
- CamTin 8y agoI'm not saying I agree with the premise (that we really have no idea what a healthy diet looks like), but given the situation where are all diets are equally likely to be healthy, picking a cheap one makes sense.
- Geee 8y agoOr, they don't report their elderly dead to collect their pension. There has been stories about this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11258071 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11258071
- nonbel 8y agoThat would be funny: "High carb diets explain pension scams".
- MarsAscendant 8y agoHighlights from the article, pertaining to the Okinawans' lifestyle and diet: * little smoking among population * strong social bonds → observed to be beneficial to bodily defence against stress * high engagement in agriculture and fishing jobs → high physical activity * possible effects of genetics — high presence of FOXO3 gene * 10-to-1 carbs-to-protein comsumption ratio, like in other particularly-long-lived populations – linked studies support the conclusion, though too early to judge definitively * sweet potato, rather than rice, is high-consumption food in the Okinawan diet * most of the diet is vegetables and fruits; meats and fish are rare * calorie consumption is, on average, 13% lower than general population * it is suggested that past the age of 65, protein consumption should increase * studies suggest that plant-based protein intake have a more positive effect on the human organism than meat- and fished-based * their diet is not the "elixir of youth", as multiple interacting factors may be in play
- BasLeijdekkers 8y agoInteresting, how can there be both a high engagement in fishing jobs and low amounts of fish in the diet. Are they very unsuccessful fishers? All the fish is sold to some other, by definition unhealthy, population?
- galangalalgol 8y agoThe article mentions isolation leading to unique genetics but then ignores the obvious conclusion that the ideal diet for them is also unique to those genetics. We know there are different dietary adaptations in different populations why do we keep looking for the one trusted diet? That said the lack of stress in this population is almost certainly universally applicable.
- ummonk 8y agoThey buried the lede. It isn't a high carb diet, but a low calorie diet with 10:1 carb to protein ratio. A more accurate description would be "low protein" diet. While carbs might make up a higher proportion of their calories, in absolute terms it's definitely not a high carb diet.
- jahaja 8y agoThe ever changing field of diets must be the most shining example of the infinite need for people to come up with theories to justify their own quirky believes.
- peter_retief 8y agoTo try and sell a high carbohydrate diet based on this isolated community is disingenuous. "They eat an abundance of green and yellow vegetables – such as the bitter melon – and various soy products. Although they do eat pork, fish and other meats, these are typically a small component of their overall consumption, which is mostly plant-based foods." In other words they eat a nutrient rich diet, not high carbohydrate as implied (They eat little rice which is high carbohydrate.) They are small in stature that implies an evolutionary response to food shortages. Questions I have are do they use "naturally" fermented soya? do they walk a lot? Alcohol? Interesting read even though I dont buy the titles narrative
- watertom 8y agoThe world is breaking down into name calling and finger pointing. I'm surprised humans ever got out of the dark ages, hell I'm surprised that we stopped flinging poop at each other, well technically it is what is happening with the Internet and Social media. Move to Okinawa, live their life and eat their way and lets see what happens. Not everything works for everyone. I tried eating vegetarian for almost a year then I got stricter and switched to vegan for 6 months because being a vegetarian wasn't working for me. The worst 18 months of my life. I was eating a well balanced diet, watching vitamins and mineral intake, my hair started falling out, by skin looked horrible. I became a vegetarian because I was 75lbs overweight, with high blood pressure. When eating a calorie restricted vegetarian/vegan diet and lifting weights and doing cardio I managed to gain weight and my blood pressure never improved. I switched to Keto, my hair recovered, my skin looks fantastic, I have energy I'm sleeping better, my job performance is much better, and without eating a calorie restricted diet I've lost 60lbs in 9 months and my blood pressure is normal, all without exercising. I'm now starting to lift weight again. People are different. If you don't try to tell me that keto doesn't work for me I won't you that the Okinawian diet doesn't work for them, or that being a vegan/vegetarian doesn't work for you.
- GeekyBear 8y agoThere are important health differences between refined carbohydrates and carbohydrates that are naturally very high in dietary fiber like sweet potatoes. https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/carbohydrates https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/carbohydrates Sure, refined carbohydrates (and sugar) are empty calories that are better avoided if you want to lose weight. Foods rich in fiber like sweet potatoes, oatmeal, whole grains, peas, and beans contain carbohydrates, but are nonetheless healthy foods you should be eating.