8 ms·

Sounds like you are just talking about things you find really weird rather than things that are easily falsifiable. I'm not convinced that any of the things yo

by tntn 8y ago

Sounds like you are just talking about things you find really weird rather than things that are easily falsifiable. I'm not convinced that any of the things you are discussing can be disproved more easily than flat earth.

lisper 8y ago
I think you're underestimating how hard it is to disprove a flat earth (to a flat-earher).
- tntn 8y ago
  I think you are confusing how hard it is to convince flat-earthers that the earth is not flat with how ridiculously easy it is to prove the the earth is not flat. I (and the original comment you responded to) are discussing the second of these two.
  - lisper 8y ago
    Those two things are not distinct. It is manifestly untrue that it is easy to prove that the earth is round because there are people who have seen this alleged proof and remain unconvinced. The fact that you (and I) think those people are idiots is not probative.
    - klibertp 8y ago
      You are both using implicit (so far) and incompatible definitions of "proof" & "proving". (Just thought that I point it out in case you guys missed it (sorry if you didn't, just trying to be helpful here) but wanted to continue the discussion)
      - lisper 8y ago
        See my response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18957158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18957158
    - tntn 8y ago
      I mean, sure, if you want to go down the route that nothing is falsifiable because the government is putting hallucinogens in the water so you can't trust anything you perceive, or whatever. But if that is the case, it is impossible to prove or disprove anything, so it doesn't make much sense that you claimed flat earth is "not even close" to two religions in terms of difficulty of disproving (there can be no rank of everything is impossible). I'm not sure what you were going for there. Probably still you think Scientology and the Book of Mormon are "dumber" than flat earth theory simply because they sound weirder to you, which is fine, but not really a response to 'sonnyblarney's original comment.
      - lisper 8y ago
        > if you want to go down the route that nothing is falsifiable It's not me going down that route, it's the flat-earthers. > Probably still you think Scientology and the Book of Mormon are "dumber" than flat earth theory simply because they sound weirder to you No. You are raising a straw man here. It has nothing to do with dumbness (though I do admit I find some aspects of Mormonism and many aspects of Scientlology to be pretty dumb.) Nearly all religions are "easily" proven false simply by the overwhelming evidence that there is no afterlife, that mind is a function of brain, and when the brain dies, the mind dies with it. That's for a "generic" religion with no specific claims about the nature of the afterlife, whether or not there are deities, etc. etc. Scientology and Mormonism (to cite but two of many noteworthy examples) go on to make many more specific false claims, each one of which makes the theory easier to debunk. But of course this is not going to convince anyone who adheres to a religion, which is my whole point. There really is no difference. Religion and flat-eartherism both have equal scientific tenability (i.e. zero). People adhere to these beliefs for other reasons. And in both cases, those reasons are not entirely illegitimate.
        gbear605 8y ago
        > overwhelming evidence that there is no afterlife How can you have evidence that something doesn't exist when that thing leaves no evidence? > mind is a function of brain, and when the brain dies, the mind dies with it This is not provable. Suppose there is an infinitely powerful computer system outside of our universe that doesn't influence our universe but knows everything about it. Then it could copy the contents of the brain upon death and run the brain in a simulation. You can certainly not believe in there being an infinitely powerful computer system like this, but it's a claim entirely unrelated to your claim about the brain.
    - sonnyblarney 8y ago
      "It is manifestly untrue that it is easy to prove that the earth is round because there are people who have seen this alleged proof and remain unconvinced. " No, it's not 'alleged proof' it's 'proof' and the people who do not believe it obviously have some kind of problem.
      - lisper 8y ago
        See my response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18957158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18957158

by tntn 8y ago

lisper 8y ago

I think you're underestimating how hard it is to disprove a flat earth (to a flat-earher).

tntn 8y ago
I think you are confusing how hard it is to convince flat-earthers that the earth is not flat with how ridiculously easy it is to prove the the earth is not flat. I (and the original comment you responded to) are discussing the second of these two.
- lisper 8y ago
  Those two things are not distinct. It is manifestly untrue that it is easy to prove that the earth is round because there are people who have seen this alleged proof and remain unconvinced. The fact that you (and I) think those people are idiots is not probative.
  - klibertp 8y ago
    You are both using implicit (so far) and incompatible definitions of "proof" & "proving". (Just thought that I point it out in case you guys missed it (sorry if you didn't, just trying to be helpful here) but wanted to continue the discussion)
    - lisper 8y ago
      See my response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18957158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18957158
  - tntn 8y ago
    I mean, sure, if you want to go down the route that nothing is falsifiable because the government is putting hallucinogens in the water so you can't trust anything you perceive, or whatever. But if that is the case, it is impossible to prove or disprove anything, so it doesn't make much sense that you claimed flat earth is "not even close" to two religions in terms of difficulty of disproving (there can be no rank of everything is impossible). I'm not sure what you were going for there. Probably still you think Scientology and the Book of Mormon are "dumber" than flat earth theory simply because they sound weirder to you, which is fine, but not really a response to 'sonnyblarney's original comment.
    - lisper 8y ago
      > if you want to go down the route that nothing is falsifiable It's not me going down that route, it's the flat-earthers. > Probably still you think Scientology and the Book of Mormon are "dumber" than flat earth theory simply because they sound weirder to you No. You are raising a straw man here. It has nothing to do with dumbness (though I do admit I find some aspects of Mormonism and many aspects of Scientlology to be pretty dumb.) Nearly all religions are "easily" proven false simply by the overwhelming evidence that there is no afterlife, that mind is a function of brain, and when the brain dies, the mind dies with it. That's for a "generic" religion with no specific claims about the nature of the afterlife, whether or not there are deities, etc. etc. Scientology and Mormonism (to cite but two of many noteworthy examples) go on to make many more specific false claims, each one of which makes the theory easier to debunk. But of course this is not going to convince anyone who adheres to a religion, which is my whole point. There really is no difference. Religion and flat-eartherism both have equal scientific tenability (i.e. zero). People adhere to these beliefs for other reasons. And in both cases, those reasons are not entirely illegitimate.
      - gbear605 8y ago
        > overwhelming evidence that there is no afterlife How can you have evidence that something doesn't exist when that thing leaves no evidence? > mind is a function of brain, and when the brain dies, the mind dies with it This is not provable. Suppose there is an infinitely powerful computer system outside of our universe that doesn't influence our universe but knows everything about it. Then it could copy the contents of the brain upon death and run the brain in a simulation. You can certainly not believe in there being an infinitely powerful computer system like this, but it's a claim entirely unrelated to your claim about the brain.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    "It is manifestly untrue that it is easy to prove that the earth is round because there are people who have seen this alleged proof and remain unconvinced. " No, it's not 'alleged proof' it's 'proof' and the people who do not believe it obviously have some kind of problem.
    - lisper 8y ago
      See my response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18957158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18957158