5 ms·

> That being said, you don't have to use the newer technologies if you don't want to. When you're new to the scene, how on Earth would you know? Seemingly eve

> That being said, you don't have to use the newer technologies if you don't want to. When you're new to the scene, how on Earth would you know? Seemingly everybody's doing it, there's no sane source on whether it's worth using or its tangible benefits, and you can't make heads or tails of it – you need to be in the game already to even begin doing so. Web dev may not be evolving, but it certainly is developing into new forms fairly frequently. As my newbie coding days went by, I witnessed the rise of Angular as this massive new way to handle web codebase. After some time, it grew into Angular2, with a seemingly indiscernable structure to its apps. Around the same time, came Vue, which is "the same thing as Angular, only better". And that's before I started getting around Github... This kind of development doesn't match the mental model we have for improvement in a technological sphere. If there's something new, it must be better, right? Bigger TVs, smart TVs, 3D TVs... You could still watch your old TV (not really, 'cause the transmission's gone digital, which few, if any, old TVs support), but you'll be behind — and given the frantic pace of the everyday life now, how'd you know better? I'd sworn off frameworks until bigger projects entirely. You can get a lot from regular JS, without the overhead of learning and keeping up the mental model of a new framework. I can afford to, because I'm an independent developer who codes for fun. Could people in the industry afford the same?

laser 8y ago
This varies by technology, but often you can get productive within a day or two with these technologies. I mean, the core Vue docs (entire essentials section, from Introduction through Components), is 12k words, including code. At 50 wpm (1/6th of college reading speed on non-technical material), that's four hours of reading. If you wanna skim the thing, you could easily see the gist of what it's about in less than an hour.
- MarsAscendant 8y ago
  I'm not trying to argue about relative effectiveness behind Vue et al. I'm saying that, as a newbie, you wouldn't be able to know the difference. "Just try it" isn't a good argument when all you see are big, unfamiliar names that you're apparently supposed to know – and without guidance, learning web dev on your own, you effectively do, even if just to see that you don't need it. It's overwhelming. Imagine having to learn color theory and all kinds of subtle differences in the production of crayons you could have before you sit down to doodle something in your spare time. Imagine having to read your literary national treasure section whole before you want to write that cool short story you had when you took that shower. Ridiculous! So, I argue, is the fact that there's seemingly an obligation to read up documentation for major frameworks before you sit down and code your first clicker-number-increaser.
  - laser 8y ago
    Yeh, the exploding complexity due to the increasingly wide choice of tools seems like it could exacerbate already steep learnings curves for software development—but if you don't have some teacher/learning source that you just decide to trust as your guru, I'm not sure what choice you have other than to just dive in, or spend time researching options, or maybe a little of both. I guess the ideal option here is to have an expert that can give you advice that you just go along with, so if you tell them "I just want to build a clicker" they can just tell you "Just learn javascript and html and css" or w/e
    - MarsAscendant 8y ago
      > I guess the ideal option here is to have an expert that can give you advice that you just go along with, so if you tell them "I just want to build a clicker" they can just tell you "Just learn javascript and html and css" or w/e Exactly! Needn't be an expert person: I think it would be enough to have a respected source declare so in their blog, or in an article. Then, folks could point newbies towards these starting resources, much like they do with the classic blog posts. In a more ideal world, people who search "what framework to use js" would encounter that post/article and see for themselves.

laser 8y ago

This varies by technology, but often you can get productive within a day or two with these technologies. I mean, the core Vue docs (entire essentials section, from Introduction through Components), is 12k words, including code. At 50 wpm (1/6th of college reading speed on non-technical material), that's four hours of reading. If you wanna skim the thing, you could easily see the gist of what it's about in less than an hour.

MarsAscendant 8y ago
I'm not trying to argue about relative effectiveness behind Vue et al. I'm saying that, as a newbie, you wouldn't be able to know the difference. "Just try it" isn't a good argument when all you see are big, unfamiliar names that you're apparently supposed to know – and without guidance, learning web dev on your own, you effectively do, even if just to see that you don't need it. It's overwhelming. Imagine having to learn color theory and all kinds of subtle differences in the production of crayons you could have before you sit down to doodle something in your spare time. Imagine having to read your literary national treasure section whole before you want to write that cool short story you had when you took that shower. Ridiculous! So, I argue, is the fact that there's seemingly an obligation to read up documentation for major frameworks before you sit down and code your first clicker-number-increaser.
- laser 8y ago
  Yeh, the exploding complexity due to the increasingly wide choice of tools seems like it could exacerbate already steep learnings curves for software development—but if you don't have some teacher/learning source that you just decide to trust as your guru, I'm not sure what choice you have other than to just dive in, or spend time researching options, or maybe a little of both. I guess the ideal option here is to have an expert that can give you advice that you just go along with, so if you tell them "I just want to build a clicker" they can just tell you "Just learn javascript and html and css" or w/e
  - MarsAscendant 8y ago
    > I guess the ideal option here is to have an expert that can give you advice that you just go along with, so if you tell them "I just want to build a clicker" they can just tell you "Just learn javascript and html and css" or w/e Exactly! Needn't be an expert person: I think it would be enough to have a respected source declare so in their blog, or in an article. Then, folks could point newbies towards these starting resources, much like they do with the classic blog posts. In a more ideal world, people who search "what framework to use js" would encounter that post/article and see for themselves.