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I have infrequently fooled around with Linux only a handful of times in the last 15 years. I recently installed it on my laptop but was disheartened to see how

I have infrequently fooled around with Linux only a handful of times in the last 15 years. I recently installed it on my laptop but was disheartened to see how much you still need the command line to do some very basic things. Installing a program (not from the Ubuntu Software Center) and getting a launcher icon into the start-menu-equivalent took way too much time and Googling.

beagle3 8y ago
That’s true, but on the other hand, you have some 15000-30000 packages installable from software center that are guaranteed virus free, with automatic updates. (And they are liver and gratis to boot), so the average user rarely if never needs to go there.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  > installable from software center that are guaranteed virus free This is not true. Repos can, and have, been hijacked. Packages can and have had malicious code inserted. Hell, projects can and have accidentally accepted stealth backdoors in the guise of bug fixes or feature commits. The repo system is not a panacea for security.
  - beagle3 8y ago
    This is all true for any distribution system. However, in addition to e.g. hacking the actual developer/distributor, on Windows, you have to be wary of a rogue versions on e.g. download.com that rank higher than the genuine one, and of google ads for trojaned VLCs and stuff. It is no panacea, but it is very significantly better than the Windows world (and the Mac world outside of the app store) Furthermore, modern snaps have limited privileges and file system views, so a backdoor is much less effective; I assume appimages and flatpaks have similar mechanisms (and if not, they should). Situation is far from perfect, but it is about a billion time better than Windows whichever way you measure it.
andrepd 8y ago
>Installing a program (not from the Ubuntu Software Center) and getting a launcher icon took way too much time and Googling. I don't understand this. You can open the "App Store" and search and download programs. If, for some inexplicable reason, you don't want to use the Software Center, you can open a terminal and type "apt install [name]". Surely this is easier than installing a program on Windows. What exactly is your issue?
- Reelin 8y ago
  The issue is that installing something that's not in the official repositories and getting a functioning .desktop file set up for it can (in some cases) be a complete PITA if you don't already possess a reasonably detailed understanding of how the desktop launcher system works under the hood.
  - jenscow 8y ago
    Do you have an example? If you're at the point where you're downloading software that isn't in the repo, and their packages don't create a shortcut, then you're at the level where you can figure out how to do it yourself.
    - bootlooped 8y ago
      Technically competent users also value their time and effort though. I don't like complicated install processes; that's independent of whether I'm able to accomplish them or not.
  - andrepd 8y ago
    I can only say I never had such a problem. I can count with my fingers the number of times I had to do that (Zotero, Nullpomino), and by "that" I mean "right-click > add desktop shortcut".
- leppr 8y ago
  Installing a program on Windows that's not on the App store: With installer: - Download installer - execute installer by double clicking on it Without installer: - Download .exe - (Optional) Drag'n'drop .exe to some random folder - Right click .exe and select "Create desktop shortcut" All of that is way more intuitive for a regular user than entering even one string of text in a terminal. People aren't trained to enter case-sensitive, exact-match strings of text in any input nowadays. Product designers are trying to eliminate the few times users are forced to do so (login forms, and again the difference with login is that the text is familiar to the user). The CLI feels too much like coding for regular users.

beagle3 8y ago

That’s true, but on the other hand, you have some 15000-30000 packages installable from software center that are guaranteed virus free, with automatic updates. (And they are liver and gratis to boot), so the average user rarely if never needs to go there.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
> installable from software center that are guaranteed virus free This is not true. Repos can, and have, been hijacked. Packages can and have had malicious code inserted. Hell, projects can and have accidentally accepted stealth backdoors in the guise of bug fixes or feature commits. The repo system is not a panacea for security.
- beagle3 8y ago
  This is all true for any distribution system. However, in addition to e.g. hacking the actual developer/distributor, on Windows, you have to be wary of a rogue versions on e.g. download.com that rank higher than the genuine one, and of google ads for trojaned VLCs and stuff. It is no panacea, but it is very significantly better than the Windows world (and the Mac world outside of the app store) Furthermore, modern snaps have limited privileges and file system views, so a backdoor is much less effective; I assume appimages and flatpaks have similar mechanisms (and if not, they should). Situation is far from perfect, but it is about a billion time better than Windows whichever way you measure it.

andrepd 8y ago

>Installing a program (not from the Ubuntu Software Center) and getting a launcher icon took way too much time and Googling. I don't understand this. You can open the "App Store" and search and download programs. If, for some inexplicable reason, you don't want to use the Software Center, you can open a terminal and type "apt install [name]". Surely this is easier than installing a program on Windows. What exactly is your issue?

Reelin 8y ago
The issue is that installing something that's not in the official repositories and getting a functioning .desktop file set up for it can (in some cases) be a complete PITA if you don't already possess a reasonably detailed understanding of how the desktop launcher system works under the hood.
- jenscow 8y ago
  Do you have an example? If you're at the point where you're downloading software that isn't in the repo, and their packages don't create a shortcut, then you're at the level where you can figure out how to do it yourself.
  - bootlooped 8y ago
    Technically competent users also value their time and effort though. I don't like complicated install processes; that's independent of whether I'm able to accomplish them or not.
- andrepd 8y ago
  I can only say I never had such a problem. I can count with my fingers the number of times I had to do that (Zotero, Nullpomino), and by "that" I mean "right-click > add desktop shortcut".
leppr 8y ago
Installing a program on Windows that's not on the App store: With installer: - Download installer - execute installer by double clicking on it Without installer: - Download .exe - (Optional) Drag'n'drop .exe to some random folder - Right click .exe and select "Create desktop shortcut" All of that is way more intuitive for a regular user than entering even one string of text in a terminal. People aren't trained to enter case-sensitive, exact-match strings of text in any input nowadays. Product designers are trying to eliminate the few times users are forced to do so (login forms, and again the difference with login is that the text is familiar to the user). The CLI feels too much like coding for regular users.