10 ms·

I wonder if the insect die-offs that have been reported lately are linked to a nutrient deficiency such as this. It's amazing to think about the scarcity of va

I wonder if the insect die-offs that have been reported lately are linked to a nutrient deficiency such as this. It's amazing to think about the scarcity of various metabolites and how they might become concentrated in different populations and species over long time scales. I wonder if these phenomena are long scale oscillations that we are just scientifically observant enough to begin noticing.

man_made 8y ago
Are you trying to suggest that human activity is not the real problem, and that we should keep doing whatever we want?
- NeonVice 8y ago
  OP was asking a genuine question that you not only did not answer, but that you then tried to cast some kind of judgment. Sometimes we need more information before jumping into the typical fray.
  - new_to_hn 8y ago
    Have you been a reader of HN comments for very long? A common trend in mutating discussion is to resort to oblique rhetoric, such that the reader is forced into a mindset of doubt, before participating. Example: Open Source Politics Rhetoric: Is it really a good thing that distributing free, open sourced software promotes innovation in the manner it does? What if this removes the incentive to profit from true innovation? Wouldn’t the best innovators be smart enough to accept payment and restrict distribution and reverse engineering on their best work? What if open source stifles the best software preventing it from ever seeing the light of day, because the best inventors cannot earn a living? And so on.
    - NeonVice 8y ago
      It's weird. Both the new_to_hn and man_made accounts were created within the last couple of hours. I wouldn't be surprised if they were created by the same person with a penchant for creating a username that mirrors the subject of his post.
      - heyjudy 8y ago
        Interesting. If they were gaslighting FUD with a bunch of mutually-supporting nicks to "win" a convo, it still wouldn't ever contribute substance or integrity to a discussion. It would seem like so much effort for nothing.
        CptFribble 8y ago
        Maybe the goal isn't substance or integrity? Could be someone(s) practicing disruption techniques for the future. Or, maybe there are large-scale automated FUD operations running on all major discussion pages to change perception of debate and discussion.
        drharby 8y ago
        Never underestimate the pettiness of some people
      - karma_whore 8y ago
        What, am I supposed to karma whore under a single user name, like you?
      - made_man 8y ago
        Big deal. Flag me some more.
Laforet 8y ago
It's quite possible. There is mounting evidence showing that higher atomspheric CO2 leads to loss of protein and certain micronutrients in both crops[0] and wild plants[1], and it wouldn't be a stretch to think the same thing is happening to other secondary metabolites required by species up the food web. [0]:https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-global-warming-make-food-less-nutritious/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-global-warmi... [1]:https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0092044 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
- sedachv 8y ago
  One very striking thing I noticed is how this nutrient density decrease correlates with the observed obesity epidemic in mammals. There is a meta-analysis that came out of David Allison's¹ lab that examined studies of increasing rodent obesity: http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/11/19/rspb.2010.1890 http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/11... There is roughly a 1% decrease in nutrient density for every 6.25ppm increase of CO₂ in the atmosphere. From 1945 to 1985 atmospheric CO₂ increased by about 35ppm, so there should be about a 5% decrease in nutrient density. According to the meta-study, rats increased their calorie intake by roughly 6%. ¹ Caveat: Allison is a notorious "PR scientist" whose career has been made out of helping the fast- and processed- food industries deflect any blame or accountability for the health and safety of their "products." The hypothesis of the paper is that the obesity epidemic is being caused by viruses and pollutants (without offering any evidence), and has nothing to do with McDonald's. This "viruses and pollutants" fairy tale can then be used as a deflection in fast-food PR and expert testimony in class-action lawsuits and government investigations.
  - pygy_ 8y ago
    That meta-analysis only looked at animals living among humans. Is there any evidence of wild animals living far from humans getting fat as well? If the latter are not affected, it would be reasonable to think that the former are fat because they are exposed to human junk food. Junk food itself is a natural consequence of a food sector that has to grow in order to please its investors. Sell as much food as possible to whoever will buy it. It can't shove food down people's mouth, but it can produce food that's deceptively tasty and manipulate our instincts.
heyjudy 8y ago
Getting to the root cause/s of the global insect absence is important because as the bottom of the food web goes in Holocene extinction event, so might we starve due to lack of pollinators and other vital insects and fauna that we depend on for raising crops. I hear it frequently on Thom Hartmann and just the other day on Paul Beckwith's YT channel about truckers and travelers not seeing bugs on their vehicles on long trips across Canada, US and Europe. I wonder if Russia, China, Brazil, Argentina and India are the same: do they also not have to clean their vehicles of bugs from long trips as was the case 30-40 years ago?
PavlikPaja 8y ago
Birds have been observed to eat each other's brains. This article blames it on climate change, but nutrient deficiencies make much more sense: https://www.popsci.com/great-tits-murder-climate-change https://www.popsci.com/great-tits-murder-climate-change https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4oEM0W6mhM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4oEM0W6mhM (possibly NSFW/L)
- swsieber 8y ago
  It could be both, no? Climate change leading to change in the nutrional makeup of their regular diet?
  - PavlikPaja 8y ago
    Well, yes, but there is no reason to assume that climate change is the only, or even the primary cause of the decline. It's likely a specific nutrient that is yet unknown and thus its intake is not monitored.
DennisP 8y ago
Someone on reddit dug up nutritional information on insects and found that they do in fact have a lot of B1: https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/ahpwqe/see_below_journal_article_the_nutritional_value/ https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/ahpwqe/see_below_...

man_made 8y ago

Are you trying to suggest that human activity is not the real problem, and that we should keep doing whatever we want?

NeonVice 8y ago
OP was asking a genuine question that you not only did not answer, but that you then tried to cast some kind of judgment. Sometimes we need more information before jumping into the typical fray.
- new_to_hn 8y ago
  Have you been a reader of HN comments for very long? A common trend in mutating discussion is to resort to oblique rhetoric, such that the reader is forced into a mindset of doubt, before participating. Example: Open Source Politics Rhetoric: Is it really a good thing that distributing free, open sourced software promotes innovation in the manner it does? What if this removes the incentive to profit from true innovation? Wouldn’t the best innovators be smart enough to accept payment and restrict distribution and reverse engineering on their best work? What if open source stifles the best software preventing it from ever seeing the light of day, because the best inventors cannot earn a living? And so on.
  - NeonVice 8y ago
    It's weird. Both the new_to_hn and man_made accounts were created within the last couple of hours. I wouldn't be surprised if they were created by the same person with a penchant for creating a username that mirrors the subject of his post.
    - heyjudy 8y ago
      Interesting. If they were gaslighting FUD with a bunch of mutually-supporting nicks to "win" a convo, it still wouldn't ever contribute substance or integrity to a discussion. It would seem like so much effort for nothing.
      - CptFribble 8y ago
        Maybe the goal isn't substance or integrity? Could be someone(s) practicing disruption techniques for the future. Or, maybe there are large-scale automated FUD operations running on all major discussion pages to change perception of debate and discussion.
      - drharby 8y ago
        Never underestimate the pettiness of some people
    - karma_whore 8y ago
      What, am I supposed to karma whore under a single user name, like you?
    - made_man 8y ago
      Big deal. Flag me some more.

Laforet 8y ago

It's quite possible. There is mounting evidence showing that higher atomspheric CO2 leads to loss of protein and certain micronutrients in both crops[0] and wild plants[1], and it wouldn't be a stretch to think the same thing is happening to other secondary metabolites required by species up the food web. [0]:https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-global-warming-make-food-less-nutritious/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-global-warmi... [1]:https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0092044 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

sedachv 8y ago
One very striking thing I noticed is how this nutrient density decrease correlates with the observed obesity epidemic in mammals. There is a meta-analysis that came out of David Allison's¹ lab that examined studies of increasing rodent obesity: http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/11/19/rspb.2010.1890 http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2010/11... There is roughly a 1% decrease in nutrient density for every 6.25ppm increase of CO₂ in the atmosphere. From 1945 to 1985 atmospheric CO₂ increased by about 35ppm, so there should be about a 5% decrease in nutrient density. According to the meta-study, rats increased their calorie intake by roughly 6%. ¹ Caveat: Allison is a notorious "PR scientist" whose career has been made out of helping the fast- and processed- food industries deflect any blame or accountability for the health and safety of their "products." The hypothesis of the paper is that the obesity epidemic is being caused by viruses and pollutants (without offering any evidence), and has nothing to do with McDonald's. This "viruses and pollutants" fairy tale can then be used as a deflection in fast-food PR and expert testimony in class-action lawsuits and government investigations.
- pygy_ 8y ago
  That meta-analysis only looked at animals living among humans. Is there any evidence of wild animals living far from humans getting fat as well? If the latter are not affected, it would be reasonable to think that the former are fat because they are exposed to human junk food. Junk food itself is a natural consequence of a food sector that has to grow in order to please its investors. Sell as much food as possible to whoever will buy it. It can't shove food down people's mouth, but it can produce food that's deceptively tasty and manipulate our instincts.

heyjudy 8y ago

Getting to the root cause/s of the global insect absence is important because as the bottom of the food web goes in Holocene extinction event, so might we starve due to lack of pollinators and other vital insects and fauna that we depend on for raising crops. I hear it frequently on Thom Hartmann and just the other day on Paul Beckwith's YT channel about truckers and travelers not seeing bugs on their vehicles on long trips across Canada, US and Europe. I wonder if Russia, China, Brazil, Argentina and India are the same: do they also not have to clean their vehicles of bugs from long trips as was the case 30-40 years ago?

PavlikPaja 8y ago

Birds have been observed to eat each other's brains. This article blames it on climate change, but nutrient deficiencies make much more sense: https://www.popsci.com/great-tits-murder-climate-change https://www.popsci.com/great-tits-murder-climate-change https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4oEM0W6mhM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4oEM0W6mhM (possibly NSFW/L)

swsieber 8y ago
It could be both, no? Climate change leading to change in the nutrional makeup of their regular diet?
- PavlikPaja 8y ago
  Well, yes, but there is no reason to assume that climate change is the only, or even the primary cause of the decline. It's likely a specific nutrient that is yet unknown and thus its intake is not monitored.

DennisP 8y ago

Someone on reddit dug up nutritional information on insects and found that they do in fact have a lot of B1: https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/ahpwqe/see_below_journal_article_the_nutritional_value/ https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/ahpwqe/see_below_...