5 ms·

Oracle systematically underpaid thousands of women, lawsuit says

16 points by rectang 8y ago

tluyben2 8y ago
Oracle is a big name but many companies do this; in my experience women simply do not negotiate as hard as guys. I do not and never did coding interviews, current pay has to be higher than the last etc; I try to get my female friends to be as cocky (many of them are far smarter and capable than me) but they just are not. So it is easy to just underpay while getting real talent. Somehow I guess guys (again, in my experience) are more aggressive and often messing things up for themselves by not backing down, however when it works...
- sadris 8y ago
  Women have noticably higher levels of agreeableness: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/#!po=0.549451 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/#!po=0....
- belorn 8y ago
  > however when it works The social difference between men at the top 10% of the income vs bottom 10% has always been very significant. Women are not forced with the same negative consequences if they end up with lower income, so it would be surprising if those far smarter would willingly expose themselves to unnecessary risk during negotiation, just so they can match the same income.
paydate 8y ago
So, as a male, if I’m making significantly less than my peers at a job, do I also have grounds for a lawsuit? Can I just sue to get any salary I want later on? What about past employers? In 2013, I was making $50K as a developer, when other developers, peers at my level, were making three times that amount, and I have proof. Can I just bring that up in court, claim that I was singled out, and demand back pay? What if that happens to me at my next job? I accept the offer letter, then a year later, I find out everyone else makes more. Can I sue? Or do I have to be a woman?
- david-gpu 8y ago
  Way to derail the conversation. Gender is a protected class, as is ethnicity and religion. If a group of people belonging to a protected class are systematically paid less than their peers, it is grounds for a lawsuit.
jmpman 8y ago
Was this adjusted for location? I expect a higher percentage of male employees in expensive locations, and a more equal ratio in cheaper locations.

16 points by rectang 8y ago

Oracle is a big name but many companies do this; in my experience women simply do not negotiate as hard as guys. I do not and never did coding interviews, current pay has to be higher than the last etc; I try to get my female friends to be as cocky (many of them are far smarter and capable than me) but they just are not. So it is easy to just underpay while getting real talent. Somehow I guess guys (again, in my experience) are more aggressive and often messing things up for themselves by not backing down, however when it works...

sadris 8y ago
Women have noticably higher levels of agreeableness: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/#!po=0.549451 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/#!po=0....
belorn 8y ago
> however when it works The social difference between men at the top 10% of the income vs bottom 10% has always been very significant. Women are not forced with the same negative consequences if they end up with lower income, so it would be surprising if those far smarter would willingly expose themselves to unnecessary risk during negotiation, just so they can match the same income.

paydate 8y ago

So, as a male, if I’m making significantly less than my peers at a job, do I also have grounds for a lawsuit? Can I just sue to get any salary I want later on? What about past employers? In 2013, I was making $50K as a developer, when other developers, peers at my level, were making three times that amount, and I have proof. Can I just bring that up in court, claim that I was singled out, and demand back pay? What if that happens to me at my next job? I accept the offer letter, then a year later, I find out everyone else makes more. Can I sue? Or do I have to be a woman?

david-gpu 8y ago
Way to derail the conversation. Gender is a protected class, as is ethnicity and religion. If a group of people belonging to a protected class are systematically paid less than their peers, it is grounds for a lawsuit.

jmpman 8y ago

Was this adjusted for location? I expect a higher percentage of male employees in expensive locations, and a more equal ratio in cheaper locations.