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> Legislative intrusion into the womb has a long history in the United States, and nowhere is this paternalism more forceful than when illegal drugs are part of

by cat199 8y ago

> Legislative intrusion into the womb has a long history in the United States, and nowhere is this paternalism more forceful than when illegal drugs are part of the equation. a) legislation on everything has a long history everywhere b) 'forceful intrusion'. I see what you did there. c) Paternalism? why does legislation have a gender? if it concerns motherhood, why is it not then materialism? What are we presupposing by this? so really, subtext wise, legislating anything to do with pregnancy is basically rape of women by males, even if it is proposed by females, because it is 'paternalistic' and 'forcefully intrudes' into the womb. right. got it. > By the time the epidemic was over, the view that the fetus was a person with rights superseding the mother’s had gained considerable traction in practice. So please, tell me more about this 'novel view' that didn't exist before, and how it was created directly and specifically as a result of incorrect negative imagery used in the so-called war on drugs. Yeah.. no. Someone is mad that their particular viewpoint w/r/t pregnancy is not as popular as it once was, and is digging up all the self-referential straw men needed to define it in order to 'prove' that they are still there.

watwut 8y ago
Paternalism does not imply male, it means person in authority restricting freedom.
deogeo 8y ago
Regarding c), it's called 'paternalism' because pro-life attitudes, the source of this legislation, have greater support among men than women: http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/ http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortio... ...whoops, no, sorry, that data shows 36% of women and 37% of men are pro-life, practically the same. But maybe we could blame blacks and hispanics? Criminalizing abortion has 35% support among whites, 38% among blacks, and 44% among hispanics.
- detaro 8y ago
  The definition of "paternalism" does not mention gender (see e.g. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paternalism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paternalism), so the straw man you built doesn't apply
  - deogeo 8y ago
    'Paternalism' is associated with men - it contains the latin word for 'father', and means ".. the manner of a father dealing benevolently and often intrusively with his children" according to https://www.dictionary.com/browse/paternalism https://www.dictionary.com/browse/paternalism And in this article, it was deliberately chosen for its association with men - it's clearly the wrong word, even without its connotations of gender. Only laws that are meant to prevent you from harming yourself are paternalistic, not from harming others. E.g. banning high-sugar foods, driving without seat-belts, etc. You wouldn't call laws against assault, murder, or theft 'paternalistic', would you?
suffrage 8y ago
Women didn’t have the right to vote in the United States, until 1920. So, patriarchy stems from that fact. Other countries have different years, before voting was extended to women, and sometimes the pretext wasn’t unconditional, requiring land ownership or other qualifiers. Meanwhile, “paternal” in the context of politics is an expression for degree of intervention or invasiveness of government overreach, and is less referential to male or female qualities directly. The term often reflects a strict fatherland, and less a nurturing motherland, again with the qualities as abstractions. A paternalistic government is less tyrranical, but more insistent on the adoption of customs, even if those customs aren’t sexist or chauvanistic. Paternalism differs from “patriarchy” in that a patriarchy directly refers to the identity of the constituents of the regime in control, while paternalism only hints that the regime in question has imposed unpopular policies “for your own good” like eating your vegetables, but not to the extent of totalitarian brainwashing. Maternalism woulf be more akin to providing benefits and preventative maintenance of citizenry. Usually the prlance for maternalism often gets branded as socialism to cast a negative light.
- cat199 8y ago
  thank you for 'schooling' me on one particular philosophical belief; the existence of which, and inherent biases of - rather than being objective fact- but rather philosophical opinion- is precisely what I am calling out in my critique.

by cat199 8y ago

watwut 8y ago

Paternalism does not imply male, it means person in authority restricting freedom.

deogeo 8y ago

Regarding c), it's called 'paternalism' because pro-life attitudes, the source of this legislation, have greater support among men than women: http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/ http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortio... ...whoops, no, sorry, that data shows 36% of women and 37% of men are pro-life, practically the same. But maybe we could blame blacks and hispanics? Criminalizing abortion has 35% support among whites, 38% among blacks, and 44% among hispanics.

detaro 8y ago
The definition of "paternalism" does not mention gender (see e.g. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paternalism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paternalism), so the straw man you built doesn't apply
- deogeo 8y ago
  'Paternalism' is associated with men - it contains the latin word for 'father', and means ".. the manner of a father dealing benevolently and often intrusively with his children" according to https://www.dictionary.com/browse/paternalism https://www.dictionary.com/browse/paternalism And in this article, it was deliberately chosen for its association with men - it's clearly the wrong word, even without its connotations of gender. Only laws that are meant to prevent you from harming yourself are paternalistic, not from harming others. E.g. banning high-sugar foods, driving without seat-belts, etc. You wouldn't call laws against assault, murder, or theft 'paternalistic', would you?

suffrage 8y ago

Women didn’t have the right to vote in the United States, until 1920. So, patriarchy stems from that fact. Other countries have different years, before voting was extended to women, and sometimes the pretext wasn’t unconditional, requiring land ownership or other qualifiers. Meanwhile, “paternal” in the context of politics is an expression for degree of intervention or invasiveness of government overreach, and is less referential to male or female qualities directly. The term often reflects a strict fatherland, and less a nurturing motherland, again with the qualities as abstractions. A paternalistic government is less tyrranical, but more insistent on the adoption of customs, even if those customs aren’t sexist or chauvanistic. Paternalism differs from “patriarchy” in that a patriarchy directly refers to the identity of the constituents of the regime in control, while paternalism only hints that the regime in question has imposed unpopular policies “for your own good” like eating your vegetables, but not to the extent of totalitarian brainwashing. Maternalism woulf be more akin to providing benefits and preventative maintenance of citizenry. Usually the prlance for maternalism often gets branded as socialism to cast a negative light.

cat199 8y ago
thank you for 'schooling' me on one particular philosophical belief; the existence of which, and inherent biases of - rather than being objective fact- but rather philosophical opinion- is precisely what I am calling out in my critique.