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Curious - which is a more profitable relationship, the agencies or serving a mid-sized business directly? I imagine there's a longer selling cycle for the mid-

Curious - which is a more profitable relationship, the agencies or serving a mid-sized business directly? I imagine there's a longer selling cycle for the mid-sized business, offset by higher pricing? Which group is harder to serve? (eg. more iterations and drama inserted into the job vs. shaking hands, getting it done, and getting paid)

honopu 8y ago
Mid size biz like the biz to biz approach. Agencies generally absorb a lot of the budget for creative directors, market research, etc and don’t leave a lot for actual development. Ideally you get in the position where you’re directly affecting income, that’s measured, by your efforts. That’s when you can charge based off of the value you’re providing, instead of an hourly rate.
- sixtypoundhound 8y ago
  I think a lot of mid-market web agencies suffer from this issue (going to one of my favorite patio11 articles): https://www.kalzumeus.com/2008/01/28/why-you-shouldnt-pay-any-seo-you-can-afford/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2008/01/28/why-you-shouldnt-pay-an...
jason_pomerleau 8y ago
Agency work is less profitable and higher hassle. They tend to want to “manage the project” and many of them do it rather poorly. My sales cycle is very short. I usually close the sale in the first meeting - or walk away knowing that a PO is imminent. Or I finish that meeting knowing that there’s no real opportunity there. Over many years I’ve developed a pretty good instinct of what is an opportunity and what isn’t, and where there’s a good fit and isn’t. Wish I could be more prescriptive, but it seems to be one of my magic powers.
- maratd 8y ago
  > Agency work is less profitable and higher hassle. I agree with the first part, but disagree with the second. Rather, partially disagree. Most agencies are inept. There are some out there that run a very tight ship and it is a pleasure to work for them. They tend to be larger and have a system for handling contractors. That said, since it's always less profitable, you're always better off having your own clients.
  - mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
    This has not been the case for me. One of my best clients is a small agency that does not have an in house UX designer. They pass 100% of their UX work to me at the full price I decide. I had a very candid conversation with the owner and he was adamant about paying whatever to make me happy about the work to stay long term. It has been a win win relationship with them over the years. I charge a premium they are happy to pay and the work brings major wins for their clients which allows the agency to get even better and bigger contracts.
- sixtypoundhound 8y ago
  Thank you - matches my expectations. The older I get, the more I value clients who are willing to shake hands once and let us handle it from there (or better yet, send me an email before a project and a check after it). Having some 23 year old AE clumsily attempt to "manage" us is a recipe for imminent violence.... (us => spouse and I)

honopu 8y ago

Mid size biz like the biz to biz approach. Agencies generally absorb a lot of the budget for creative directors, market research, etc and don’t leave a lot for actual development. Ideally you get in the position where you’re directly affecting income, that’s measured, by your efforts. That’s when you can charge based off of the value you’re providing, instead of an hourly rate.

sixtypoundhound 8y ago
I think a lot of mid-market web agencies suffer from this issue (going to one of my favorite patio11 articles): https://www.kalzumeus.com/2008/01/28/why-you-shouldnt-pay-any-seo-you-can-afford/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2008/01/28/why-you-shouldnt-pay-an...

jason_pomerleau 8y ago

Agency work is less profitable and higher hassle. They tend to want to “manage the project” and many of them do it rather poorly. My sales cycle is very short. I usually close the sale in the first meeting - or walk away knowing that a PO is imminent. Or I finish that meeting knowing that there’s no real opportunity there. Over many years I’ve developed a pretty good instinct of what is an opportunity and what isn’t, and where there’s a good fit and isn’t. Wish I could be more prescriptive, but it seems to be one of my magic powers.

maratd 8y ago
> Agency work is less profitable and higher hassle. I agree with the first part, but disagree with the second. Rather, partially disagree. Most agencies are inept. There are some out there that run a very tight ship and it is a pleasure to work for them. They tend to be larger and have a system for handling contractors. That said, since it's always less profitable, you're always better off having your own clients.
- mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
  This has not been the case for me. One of my best clients is a small agency that does not have an in house UX designer. They pass 100% of their UX work to me at the full price I decide. I had a very candid conversation with the owner and he was adamant about paying whatever to make me happy about the work to stay long term. It has been a win win relationship with them over the years. I charge a premium they are happy to pay and the work brings major wins for their clients which allows the agency to get even better and bigger contracts.
sixtypoundhound 8y ago
Thank you - matches my expectations. The older I get, the more I value clients who are willing to shake hands once and let us handle it from there (or better yet, send me an email before a project and a check after it). Having some 23 year old AE clumsily attempt to "manage" us is a recipe for imminent violence.... (us => spouse and I)