5 ms·

I am a hardcore Linux user. I went so far as buying Chromebooks to wipe ChromeOS and run Linux on them in the last 5 years. As of late, I have decided to leave

I am a hardcore Linux user. I went so far as buying Chromebooks to wipe ChromeOS and run Linux on them in the last 5 years. As of late, I have decided to leave ChromeOS alone on my new Pixelbook. There are two reasons for that decision: - I just love having the ability to have a pen to draw when I needed to share the screen to explain something for my friends when we talk about technical crap. ChromeOS supports the pen reasonably well with its ability to run Android apps. - The Linux emulation layer on ChromeOS is actually very good. I can run app-get, gcc, Sublime text, Konsole and most of the apps I want to run. I figured it is a good tradeoff between convenience and utility. I still have to do my embedded work on my desktop which has a real distro. I am very glad they are bringing the upcoming usb redirection support, so I can do embedded work on my laptop. With GPU acceleration I can play games too, fantastic! Hardware-wise, the Chromebook Pixel has been a disaster. Every once in a while, the USB-C port just craps out completely and I had to do the SMC reset procedure for it to work again. The other day, I left the laptop battery run dry and when I plugged in to charge and tried to turn it on, the keyboard would flicker like a discotheque with nothing on the screen for like 20 minutes when it was charging up. The hardware is just inconsistent and feels flaky as heck. But all in all, I am actually quite happy with my Pixelbook purchase. If the hardware/firmware experience could improve a bit, then it would have been a very, very good purchase despite all the hates from Youtube reviewers.

lostmsu 8y ago
So, why don't you just use Windows or Mac laptop? You'd have all the same advantages without hardware/firmware problems.
- pqz 8y ago
  I don't know if this is his reason, but at the price range of a Chromebook I assume all Windows notebooks are crap and Macs are non-existent.
  - dsr_ 8y ago
    You're wrong, but only because the Chromebook price range goes from $200 on the low end to $1650 for a Google Pixelbook with the high-end configuration. In between you can find lots of usable hardware from other vendors, including two configurations of the 13" MacBook Pro with retina screens.
    - stoolpigeon 8y ago
      The first reason given was the ability to write on the screen with a pen. That wont happen with an MBP.
  - zozbot123 8y ago
    A "crap" Windows notebook becomes perfectly usable, even quite snappy, when the Windows install is wiped out and replaced with Linux. (Barring hardware issues, of course.) It's not like low-end Chromebooks have better hardware specs for the price.
    - pqz 8y ago
      I'm not talking about the hw specs, I'm talking about the shitty build all cheap Windows laptops have. Correct me if wrong but I think all Chromebooks are sturdy and durable regardless of the price.
      - zozbot123 8y ago
        There's plenty of refurbished hardware that's built in a sturdier way. Or you can pay a few hundred dollars more and get a new laptop with a better build - it's worth it just to not have to deal with the weird issues in Chromebook firmware. I'm sorry but a computer that will wipe its install simply because you did not press the right key combination at startup is a useless toy, nothing more than that. (And no, I'm not going to look up my Chromebook model in a firmware-replacement guide and spend my weekend tinkering with it just so it doesn't do that anymore. That's ridiculous.)
      - opencl 8y ago
        Some cheap laptops are available with basically the same hardware running either ChromeOS or Windows. See for example HP's Chromebook and Stream line, they are near-identical aside from the keyboard layout and the Windows models having more storage.
      - keypress 8y ago
        My partner has an Acer £250 Chromebook and their work machine is a £1000 HP, I bought a £140 Lenovo, and the build quality of the HP and Lenovo is on par. The case and screen on the ACER is better than both. The battery is quite poor on the HP, but compared to the other machines it has a better CPU - so could explain it. I'm not saying machines are much of a much-ness, but sometimes more money doesn't buy you better quality. There are HP lines that start from £200 - £1000, and they have the same cases but different flavours of memory and CPUs, I doubt there is much between them in build quality.
- jimmies 8y ago
  >why don't you just use Windows or Mac laptop? Linux tooling support is still very important to me. I want to be able to enjoy Konsole and Sublime text. Windows Subsystem for Linux is getting there, but I don't think it's as advanced as ChromeOS' yet. Besides, I don't like the Metro interface and Windows 10 in general. Mac means tying to Apple hardware. Apple hardware means crappy keyboard, heavy laptop, and no touch screen.
  - sz4kerto 8y ago
    I'm just using Windows with Linux in a VM. All the hardware support and all the Linux goodies. (Some extra memory is required, but my thin-and-light 14" laptop had 32G, so it's ok.)
    - moron4hire 8y ago
      I finally sprung for VMware instead of VirtualBox and running a Linux guest on Windows has gotten so much better for me.
  - tootie 8y ago
    I had a Win 10 laptop with WSL and a touchscreen as my main workstation for a year and I loved it. Sublime is already superceded by VS Code in my mind. Haven't tried Konsole, but I've seen some threads to indicate it can be done. My new job requires me to have a Mac because we do some iOS work and generate a lot of Keynote decks and I just hate it.
dgzl 8y ago
As a Linux fanatic myself, I've been really interested in flashing a cheap Chromebook into Arch or something low resource, and using it as a super mobile workstation. I guess the only problem is, I haven't given up on my T430 from college. Upgraded parts, extended battery and dock makes for a very comfortable setup that's hard to leave.
- stevewillows 8y ago
  Take a look at https://galliumos.org https://galliumos.org -- its Xubuntu tweaked for certain Chromebooks. I've been running it on a first gen Toshiba CB2 (4gb ram, 16gb eMMC, 1080p display) -- and it runs really well. I run i3 and the other standards. I use it as my out-on-the-town laptop out of fear of either dropping or losing my late 2013 macbook pro. Anyway, the dev community around this is pretty decent, and other distros do run with varying degrees of success. If nothing else, its a fun, quick little project to get it up and running. edit: I should also mention that having a 8-10hr actual-use battery life is a dream come true.
  - dgzl 8y ago
    > I should also mention that having a 8-10hr actual-use battery life is a dream come true. This really is where the gold is. Many people don't prioritize battery life when picking a laptop, which is just hilarious in my mind.
    - stevewillows 8y ago
      Its crazy, right? I confess that I was totally in that camp prior to getting this little chromebook. I always figured that 4 - 5 hours was as good as I'd ever get, but now I've seen the light. I even gave it a cute cover (that most people think is hideous) using some mactac -- https://i.imgur.com/wO1WW2t.jpg https://i.imgur.com/wO1WW2t.jpg
- guenthert 8y ago
  I don't think Chromebooks make good Linux laptops. I had a cheap Samsung one and still use my '13 Pixel. The latter's screen is too reflective, the keyboard is mediocre and there are no PgUp/PgDown keys, so editing would be cumbersome (uh, yeah, I know of C-v and M-v, but still). It is awesome at watching Netflix and browsing the Web though (when looking at the screen at an angle avoiding the worst reflections ;-} or rather was, as it is now EoL'ed by Google, hence I actually might perform the conversion soonish.
devereaux 8y ago
Don't take it personally, but I think it is just growing older and getting more busy with work, life etc. The returns on investment on the time you spend tickering with your laptop are lower - because you have other uses for your time, and because you have expectations set in the past while ChomeOs keeps improving. Now if you take a long sabbatical or go back to school, maybe you'll tinker again!
- zozbot123 8y ago
  It doesn't take much tinkering to install Linux these days (unless you choose to go with Arch for some reason). If you know how to reinstall Windows 10 from external media, you know how to install Linux.
- jimmies 8y ago
  Absolutely. Same reason I stopped doing custom ROM for my phone. Growing up is hard :(
- fartcannon 8y ago
  Don't take it personal, but it's hardly a challenge. The process of download and burn then reboot really taxes you?
  - devereaux 8y ago
    No, but the zillion little fixes sap a limited amount of energy I wouldn't be satisfied unless I compiled an optimized kernel with almost no module left, etc. This takes more time than I can allot
SXX 8y ago
> The Linux emulation layer on ChromeOS is actually very good. I can run app-get, gcc, Sublime text, Konsole and most of the apps I want to run. What emulation are you talking about? ChromeOS is based on Gentoo Linux.
- bubblethink 8y ago
  LXC container in a vm. https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/master/containers_and_vms.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/master/c...
  - cyphar 8y ago
    Yes, but it definitely isn't an emulation layer. It's just virtualization.
rayiner 8y ago
> But all in all, I am actually quite happy with my Pixelbook purchase. If the hardware/firmware experience could improve a bit, then it would have been a very, very good purchase despite all the hates from Youtube reviewers. How do you forgive something like that? The LTE on my Lenovo X1C 6th gen fails randomly (with recent driver updates, it’s just once a week). I’m never buying a Lenovo again, basic functionality like that should just work. Laptops are solved technology. They should not have bugs like this.
- benologist 8y ago
  It's just code bugs, they're easy to forgive when they get fixed. How much code is in a laptop prior to installing an operating system, it must be a lot with modern hardware. Management bugs on the other hand are harder to forgive, like that time Lenovo shipped rootkits, or the many times Apple has simply lied about bad hardware design, or that time Facebook decided not to refund children based on if it was their parents asking... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/9gsp0m/what_is_the_most_evil_company_and_why/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/9gsp0m/what_is_t...
  - rayiner 8y ago
    I disagree. Apple hardware has had some quirks, but over aggressive throttling is far more forgivable than basic functionality simply not working. My laptop is a tool—it needs to work.
    - benologist 8y ago
      How about when Apple denied 2017's keyboards were shit then they denied it again and again until in 2018 whilst continuing to deny it they iterated on the design to fix the problem and launched a 4 year replacement program for devices otherwise likely to last 10+ years? How much is the EU going to spend in 2021 fighting Apple when the keyboard replacements are still required and cost $700... How about bent iPads, badly soldered nVidia chips, fraying cables etc? Code mistakes (sometimes) just get fixed instead of shielded with lies to avoid liability for avoidable mistakes.
Abishek_Muthian 8y ago
Unfortunately Pixelbook is not supported by GalliumOS, otherwise a multiboot with actual linux would prove to be a better alternative. Google sent me a free Acer Chromebook 11 N7, with custom firmware I'm able to dual boot ChromeOS & GalliumOS (built on Xubuntu) & use the latter for running some experiments where fan-less X86 arch comes in handy. Till X86 based SBC become affordable & widely available, the Celeron based Chromebooks seems to be an google alternative.

lostmsu 8y ago

So, why don't you just use Windows or Mac laptop? You'd have all the same advantages without hardware/firmware problems.

pqz 8y ago
I don't know if this is his reason, but at the price range of a Chromebook I assume all Windows notebooks are crap and Macs are non-existent.
- dsr_ 8y ago
  You're wrong, but only because the Chromebook price range goes from $200 on the low end to $1650 for a Google Pixelbook with the high-end configuration. In between you can find lots of usable hardware from other vendors, including two configurations of the 13" MacBook Pro with retina screens.
  - stoolpigeon 8y ago
    The first reason given was the ability to write on the screen with a pen. That wont happen with an MBP.
- zozbot123 8y ago
  A "crap" Windows notebook becomes perfectly usable, even quite snappy, when the Windows install is wiped out and replaced with Linux. (Barring hardware issues, of course.) It's not like low-end Chromebooks have better hardware specs for the price.
  - pqz 8y ago
    I'm not talking about the hw specs, I'm talking about the shitty build all cheap Windows laptops have. Correct me if wrong but I think all Chromebooks are sturdy and durable regardless of the price.
    - zozbot123 8y ago
      There's plenty of refurbished hardware that's built in a sturdier way. Or you can pay a few hundred dollars more and get a new laptop with a better build - it's worth it just to not have to deal with the weird issues in Chromebook firmware. I'm sorry but a computer that will wipe its install simply because you did not press the right key combination at startup is a useless toy, nothing more than that. (And no, I'm not going to look up my Chromebook model in a firmware-replacement guide and spend my weekend tinkering with it just so it doesn't do that anymore. That's ridiculous.)
    - opencl 8y ago
      Some cheap laptops are available with basically the same hardware running either ChromeOS or Windows. See for example HP's Chromebook and Stream line, they are near-identical aside from the keyboard layout and the Windows models having more storage.
    - keypress 8y ago
      My partner has an Acer £250 Chromebook and their work machine is a £1000 HP, I bought a £140 Lenovo, and the build quality of the HP and Lenovo is on par. The case and screen on the ACER is better than both. The battery is quite poor on the HP, but compared to the other machines it has a better CPU - so could explain it. I'm not saying machines are much of a much-ness, but sometimes more money doesn't buy you better quality. There are HP lines that start from £200 - £1000, and they have the same cases but different flavours of memory and CPUs, I doubt there is much between them in build quality.
jimmies 8y ago
>why don't you just use Windows or Mac laptop? Linux tooling support is still very important to me. I want to be able to enjoy Konsole and Sublime text. Windows Subsystem for Linux is getting there, but I don't think it's as advanced as ChromeOS' yet. Besides, I don't like the Metro interface and Windows 10 in general. Mac means tying to Apple hardware. Apple hardware means crappy keyboard, heavy laptop, and no touch screen.
- sz4kerto 8y ago
  I'm just using Windows with Linux in a VM. All the hardware support and all the Linux goodies. (Some extra memory is required, but my thin-and-light 14" laptop had 32G, so it's ok.)
  - moron4hire 8y ago
    I finally sprung for VMware instead of VirtualBox and running a Linux guest on Windows has gotten so much better for me.
- tootie 8y ago
  I had a Win 10 laptop with WSL and a touchscreen as my main workstation for a year and I loved it. Sublime is already superceded by VS Code in my mind. Haven't tried Konsole, but I've seen some threads to indicate it can be done. My new job requires me to have a Mac because we do some iOS work and generate a lot of Keynote decks and I just hate it.

dgzl 8y ago

As a Linux fanatic myself, I've been really interested in flashing a cheap Chromebook into Arch or something low resource, and using it as a super mobile workstation. I guess the only problem is, I haven't given up on my T430 from college. Upgraded parts, extended battery and dock makes for a very comfortable setup that's hard to leave.

stevewillows 8y ago
Take a look at https://galliumos.org https://galliumos.org -- its Xubuntu tweaked for certain Chromebooks. I've been running it on a first gen Toshiba CB2 (4gb ram, 16gb eMMC, 1080p display) -- and it runs really well. I run i3 and the other standards. I use it as my out-on-the-town laptop out of fear of either dropping or losing my late 2013 macbook pro. Anyway, the dev community around this is pretty decent, and other distros do run with varying degrees of success. If nothing else, its a fun, quick little project to get it up and running. edit: I should also mention that having a 8-10hr actual-use battery life is a dream come true.
- dgzl 8y ago
  > I should also mention that having a 8-10hr actual-use battery life is a dream come true. This really is where the gold is. Many people don't prioritize battery life when picking a laptop, which is just hilarious in my mind.
  - stevewillows 8y ago
    Its crazy, right? I confess that I was totally in that camp prior to getting this little chromebook. I always figured that 4 - 5 hours was as good as I'd ever get, but now I've seen the light. I even gave it a cute cover (that most people think is hideous) using some mactac -- https://i.imgur.com/wO1WW2t.jpg https://i.imgur.com/wO1WW2t.jpg
guenthert 8y ago
I don't think Chromebooks make good Linux laptops. I had a cheap Samsung one and still use my '13 Pixel. The latter's screen is too reflective, the keyboard is mediocre and there are no PgUp/PgDown keys, so editing would be cumbersome (uh, yeah, I know of C-v and M-v, but still). It is awesome at watching Netflix and browsing the Web though (when looking at the screen at an angle avoiding the worst reflections ;-} or rather was, as it is now EoL'ed by Google, hence I actually might perform the conversion soonish.

devereaux 8y ago

Don't take it personally, but I think it is just growing older and getting more busy with work, life etc. The returns on investment on the time you spend tickering with your laptop are lower - because you have other uses for your time, and because you have expectations set in the past while ChomeOs keeps improving. Now if you take a long sabbatical or go back to school, maybe you'll tinker again!

zozbot123 8y ago
It doesn't take much tinkering to install Linux these days (unless you choose to go with Arch for some reason). If you know how to reinstall Windows 10 from external media, you know how to install Linux.
jimmies 8y ago
Absolutely. Same reason I stopped doing custom ROM for my phone. Growing up is hard :(
fartcannon 8y ago
Don't take it personal, but it's hardly a challenge. The process of download and burn then reboot really taxes you?
- devereaux 8y ago
  No, but the zillion little fixes sap a limited amount of energy I wouldn't be satisfied unless I compiled an optimized kernel with almost no module left, etc. This takes more time than I can allot

SXX 8y ago

> The Linux emulation layer on ChromeOS is actually very good. I can run app-get, gcc, Sublime text, Konsole and most of the apps I want to run. What emulation are you talking about? ChromeOS is based on Gentoo Linux.

bubblethink 8y ago
LXC container in a vm. https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/master/containers_and_vms.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/master/c...
- cyphar 8y ago
  Yes, but it definitely isn't an emulation layer. It's just virtualization.

rayiner 8y ago

> But all in all, I am actually quite happy with my Pixelbook purchase. If the hardware/firmware experience could improve a bit, then it would have been a very, very good purchase despite all the hates from Youtube reviewers. How do you forgive something like that? The LTE on my Lenovo X1C 6th gen fails randomly (with recent driver updates, it’s just once a week). I’m never buying a Lenovo again, basic functionality like that should just work. Laptops are solved technology. They should not have bugs like this.

benologist 8y ago
It's just code bugs, they're easy to forgive when they get fixed. How much code is in a laptop prior to installing an operating system, it must be a lot with modern hardware. Management bugs on the other hand are harder to forgive, like that time Lenovo shipped rootkits, or the many times Apple has simply lied about bad hardware design, or that time Facebook decided not to refund children based on if it was their parents asking... https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/9gsp0m/what_is_the_most_evil_company_and_why/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/9gsp0m/what_is_t...
- rayiner 8y ago
  I disagree. Apple hardware has had some quirks, but over aggressive throttling is far more forgivable than basic functionality simply not working. My laptop is a tool—it needs to work.
  - benologist 8y ago
    How about when Apple denied 2017's keyboards were shit then they denied it again and again until in 2018 whilst continuing to deny it they iterated on the design to fix the problem and launched a 4 year replacement program for devices otherwise likely to last 10+ years? How much is the EU going to spend in 2021 fighting Apple when the keyboard replacements are still required and cost $700... How about bent iPads, badly soldered nVidia chips, fraying cables etc? Code mistakes (sometimes) just get fixed instead of shielded with lies to avoid liability for avoidable mistakes.

Abishek_Muthian 8y ago

Unfortunately Pixelbook is not supported by GalliumOS, otherwise a multiboot with actual linux would prove to be a better alternative. Google sent me a free Acer Chromebook 11 N7, with custom firmware I'm able to dual boot ChromeOS & GalliumOS (built on Xubuntu) & use the latter for running some experiments where fan-less X86 arch comes in handy. Till X86 based SBC become affordable & widely available, the Celeron based Chromebooks seems to be an google alternative.