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I don't get some peoples fascination with working for FAANG anyway. As you said yourself, you've had some amazing jobs outside of FAANG. People seem to hold suc

I don't get some peoples fascination with working for FAANG anyway. As you said yourself, you've had some amazing jobs outside of FAANG. People seem to hold such prestige for working at a household named software house but that doesn't mean the work is going to be any more interesting than at any of the countless other technology companies out there that are on the bleeding edge.

saagarjha 8y ago
It’s the same reason high school students apply to Stanford and MIT; there are amazing programs everywhere but top-level universities carry prestige and may have higher quality opportunities.
- laumars 8y ago
  I did cover those points. As I said, the prestige is misguided (in the case of FAANG) and you don't need to go down the FAANG route to have access to higher quality opportunities. Those companies sure want you to believe what you're claiming because it means they get the first bite of the cherry but the reality is very different (from my experience anyway).
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    You can have higher quality opportunities everywhere; it’s just that it’s often easier at those companies. Just like going to certain universities means it’s easier to find professors who lead their field, recruiters from better companies, and more access to be with smart people.
    - laumars 8y ago
      But is it actually any easier given you have to also factor in going through their painful recruitment process and actually getting employed by them in the first place? Maybe my things are different in London than they are in SV but I've never had any issues. Quite the opposite in fact; I've been turning awesome jobs down.
  - nathan_f77 8y ago
    > The prestige is misguided (in the case of FAANG) I strongly disagree, and I'm not sure why you would say that. I've heard that working at Google is a golden stamp on your resume, and you will be able to easily get a job at any other company. You'll probably even be able to skip the coding challenges in any future interviews.
    - laumars 8y ago
      > You'll probably even be able to skip the coding challenges in any future interviews. Is this speculative or does this actually happen? As a team leader I'm involved in hiring and I certainly wouldn't treat one applicant any different from another regardless of their previous postings nor experience (except when I'm headhunting someone I've previously worked with). My own experience interviewing has taught me it's easy for people to put stuff down on CVs (eg they might have legitimately worked at Google but through an acquisition rather than hired by; or not even with the team they suggest they have). So I would consider short-cutting part of the interview process in the way you described to be grossly negligent. I don't dispute that your CV is more likely to get short listed however you can certainly still sell yourself without having FAANG on there. My general point is that while I don't disagree that having FAANG on your CV will undoubtedly look good, however a good engineer shouldn't have any problems getting awesome jobs with or without FAANG. Thus is the prestige attached to FAANG really equatable in the real world or is it perhaps disproportionately hyped? Maybe this is just one of those differences between how people are hired in SV (where I haven't worked) and London (where I do work)?
      - nathan_f77 8y ago
        Purely speculative, but I would hope that it is true. I think it would also depend on your role at Google. I think it would be pretty rude and unnecessary if you asked a high-level Google employee to do a whiteboard algorithm puzzle, or a take-home assignment where they have to build a little todo list app. Especially if they are a Distinguished Engineer or a Google Fellow. I don't know where the cutoff is exactly, but at a certain point no-one should ask you to do any more coding puzzles. You'll still go through interviews, but they shouldn't need to test your basic programming skills.
Vadoff 8y ago
Don't forget a lot of it comes down to compensation as well. It's not unusual for FAANG company to pay 2x more compared to another public company for example.
- laumars 8y ago
  That really depends on your basis for comparison because there will be a lot of variation between wages for different jobs within the same company; let alone different jobs in competing companies. It can even vary depending on how good your recruiter is, how generous the management for the vacant position are, the type of job that's on off and how important that position is to that company (are they desperate? Is it an area of strategic growth? etc). Anecdotally I've really not seen the 2x trend you described and I have spent a fair amount of time negotiating peoples wages. Plus engineers who are really concerned about maximizing their income will generally turn to contracting rather than permanent work anyway (at least that is the case in London where contracting is common place). Suffice to say, I'm pretty unconvinced that FAANG pay people twice what any other business would. Maybe if you're looking for jobs outside of tech hubs (like smaller towns away from expensive cities) but other tech firms in London (and SV I'd guess?) would have to pay competitive wages else risk not attracting any talent.
  - Vadoff 8y ago
    I've seen total compensation packages of $100k for senior engineers in SF/SV before (really low side), FAANG comparatively would pay $350k+. There are plenty of public companies in SF/SV that pay senior engineers $175k total compensation. I also want to clarify that I didn't mean they always pay 2x over the competition, I meant that it's not unusual for them to. Also when I say FAANG - I kind of included similar large companies (Microsoft, LinkedIn, Salesforce, etc). There's also a lot of large companies that come close, maybe 80-90% of FAANG pay. >Plus engineers who are really concerned about maximizing their income will generally turn to contracting rather than permanent work anyway I think it's pretty difficult to get steady contract work that pays more than what FAANG does. I charged $175/hr when I used to contract and it was decently steady, but that only comes out to around the same I would be making at a FAANG minus all the perks/benefits. Also when you get to higher seniority levels, your pay at FAANGs start to reach into the 6 or 700's, meaning you'd need a contract rate of $300+/hr to compete. Usually when companies need that high level of technical architecture/leadership - they'd normally hire someone full-time rather than use a contractor, so it would probably be difficult charging that rate while getting steady work.

saagarjha 8y ago

It’s the same reason high school students apply to Stanford and MIT; there are amazing programs everywhere but top-level universities carry prestige and may have higher quality opportunities.

laumars 8y ago
I did cover those points. As I said, the prestige is misguided (in the case of FAANG) and you don't need to go down the FAANG route to have access to higher quality opportunities. Those companies sure want you to believe what you're claiming because it means they get the first bite of the cherry but the reality is very different (from my experience anyway).
- saagarjha 8y ago
  You can have higher quality opportunities everywhere; it’s just that it’s often easier at those companies. Just like going to certain universities means it’s easier to find professors who lead their field, recruiters from better companies, and more access to be with smart people.
  - laumars 8y ago
    But is it actually any easier given you have to also factor in going through their painful recruitment process and actually getting employed by them in the first place? Maybe my things are different in London than they are in SV but I've never had any issues. Quite the opposite in fact; I've been turning awesome jobs down.
- nathan_f77 8y ago
  > The prestige is misguided (in the case of FAANG) I strongly disagree, and I'm not sure why you would say that. I've heard that working at Google is a golden stamp on your resume, and you will be able to easily get a job at any other company. You'll probably even be able to skip the coding challenges in any future interviews.
  - laumars 8y ago
    > You'll probably even be able to skip the coding challenges in any future interviews. Is this speculative or does this actually happen? As a team leader I'm involved in hiring and I certainly wouldn't treat one applicant any different from another regardless of their previous postings nor experience (except when I'm headhunting someone I've previously worked with). My own experience interviewing has taught me it's easy for people to put stuff down on CVs (eg they might have legitimately worked at Google but through an acquisition rather than hired by; or not even with the team they suggest they have). So I would consider short-cutting part of the interview process in the way you described to be grossly negligent. I don't dispute that your CV is more likely to get short listed however you can certainly still sell yourself without having FAANG on there. My general point is that while I don't disagree that having FAANG on your CV will undoubtedly look good, however a good engineer shouldn't have any problems getting awesome jobs with or without FAANG. Thus is the prestige attached to FAANG really equatable in the real world or is it perhaps disproportionately hyped? Maybe this is just one of those differences between how people are hired in SV (where I haven't worked) and London (where I do work)?
    - nathan_f77 8y ago
      Purely speculative, but I would hope that it is true. I think it would also depend on your role at Google. I think it would be pretty rude and unnecessary if you asked a high-level Google employee to do a whiteboard algorithm puzzle, or a take-home assignment where they have to build a little todo list app. Especially if they are a Distinguished Engineer or a Google Fellow. I don't know where the cutoff is exactly, but at a certain point no-one should ask you to do any more coding puzzles. You'll still go through interviews, but they shouldn't need to test your basic programming skills.

Vadoff 8y ago

Don't forget a lot of it comes down to compensation as well. It's not unusual for FAANG company to pay 2x more compared to another public company for example.

laumars 8y ago
That really depends on your basis for comparison because there will be a lot of variation between wages for different jobs within the same company; let alone different jobs in competing companies. It can even vary depending on how good your recruiter is, how generous the management for the vacant position are, the type of job that's on off and how important that position is to that company (are they desperate? Is it an area of strategic growth? etc). Anecdotally I've really not seen the 2x trend you described and I have spent a fair amount of time negotiating peoples wages. Plus engineers who are really concerned about maximizing their income will generally turn to contracting rather than permanent work anyway (at least that is the case in London where contracting is common place). Suffice to say, I'm pretty unconvinced that FAANG pay people twice what any other business would. Maybe if you're looking for jobs outside of tech hubs (like smaller towns away from expensive cities) but other tech firms in London (and SV I'd guess?) would have to pay competitive wages else risk not attracting any talent.
- Vadoff 8y ago
  I've seen total compensation packages of $100k for senior engineers in SF/SV before (really low side), FAANG comparatively would pay $350k+. There are plenty of public companies in SF/SV that pay senior engineers $175k total compensation. I also want to clarify that I didn't mean they always pay 2x over the competition, I meant that it's not unusual for them to. Also when I say FAANG - I kind of included similar large companies (Microsoft, LinkedIn, Salesforce, etc). There's also a lot of large companies that come close, maybe 80-90% of FAANG pay. >Plus engineers who are really concerned about maximizing their income will generally turn to contracting rather than permanent work anyway I think it's pretty difficult to get steady contract work that pays more than what FAANG does. I charged $175/hr when I used to contract and it was decently steady, but that only comes out to around the same I would be making at a FAANG minus all the perks/benefits. Also when you get to higher seniority levels, your pay at FAANGs start to reach into the 6 or 700's, meaning you'd need a contract rate of $300+/hr to compete. Usually when companies need that high level of technical architecture/leadership - they'd normally hire someone full-time rather than use a contractor, so it would probably be difficult charging that rate while getting steady work.