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Nicotine salt versions of "vape juice" have been available for ages - unsure how Juul have managed to patent this (possibly when used in a cartridge system with

by goldcd 8y ago

Nicotine salt versions of "vape juice" have been available for ages - unsure how Juul have managed to patent this (possibly when used in a cartridge system with a juul brand on it). If you consider vaping to be a smoking cessation device, then I can't see how the salt version "isn't good" - it better mimics the thing you're trying to kick. To take an example of what existed before from pharma. Cessation was originally 'patches' - that gave you a low and slow release of nictotine. Problem with this was that it didn't mesh at all with the experience of smoking ~ "I feel tense, I need my hit hits Ahhhhh shudder" All the wonderfully approved pharma solutions recognized this. We had gum, we had mints, we had raw nicotine we could spray under our tongues to mazimize that hit to the brain. Anyway - my point from this paragraph is that I fail to see how quitting with a 'hit' based approach is suddenly wrong now it's done by vaping. Secondary point is that "addiction to nicotine" isn't actually "bad for you". Well no more so than a double-espresso-shot. If you have a puritan streak in you that feels that all chemical influence on your mood 'is bad' then 99% of your potential target is not vaping. Let's start with "glass of wine after work"

fmj 8y ago
>Nicotine salt versions of "vape juice" have been available for ages - unsure how Juul have managed to patent this (possibly when used in a cartridge system with a juul brand on it). What sets Juul's liquid apart isn't the nicotine salts, which as you said have been done before. If I'm not mistaken Juul was the first company to use benzoic acid in their nicotine salts.
- jack_h 8y ago
  They may have been the first in the e-liquid world, I'm honestly not sure. However, this has been studied by tobacco companies decades prior: https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/cttr.1983.12.issue-2/cttr-2013-0524/cttr-2013-0524.pdf https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/cttr.1983.12.issue-2... Also as a possible correction, they're not adding benzoic acid to nicotine salts, rather they're using benzoic acid and freebase nicotine to make nicotine benzoate - which is a nicotine salt. I may be misunderstanding your phrasing though, if I am I apologize.
moron4hire 8y ago
Nicotine damages the liver
drewmol 8y ago
Edit: did not intend this to be rude, and I ignored your "If you consider vaping to be a smoking cessation device" qualifier. It's good for that, and for hooking teenagers apearantly. >I can't see how the salt version "isn't good" - it better mimics the thing you're trying to kick. I think there may be a misunderstanding here. This article is about the FDA "discussing the potential for drug therapy to help addicted young people quit". "The FDA has concluded that the level of addiction it is seeing among youthful e-cigarette users is so disturbing and so unprecedented that it needs to at least ask whether we need a solution that goes beyond what we ever did with cigarettes," >I fail to see how quitting with a 'hit' based approach is suddenly wrong Breaking nicotine dependance is the goal. Nicotine salt versions were available but much less common vs freebase suspentions until recently. Introducing other drugs to combat nicotine addiction seems like a more drastic and less sucessful approach vs vaping of formulations that cause less violent blood nicotine level fluctuations combined with gradual reduction in nicotine concentration. If electronic inhaled caffine delivery devices existed with newly popular caffine suspention formulations that promoted increased daily dependence and high frequency of device usage and also had rising popularity among teens and pre-teens, I would view them as a slightly more serious "bad for you" problem to address.
- goldcd 8y ago
  "Breaking nicotine dependance is the goal." I'd disagree. Stopping people smoking is the goal - as that's what causes the damage. Breaking nicotine dependency is definitely one way of doing this, but if it can't be broken, switching delivery mechanism from smoking is nearly as good.
  - drewmol 8y ago
    I agree switching delivery mechanism from smoking to vaping is good, but in the case of this article the issue here is youth becoming nicotine addicts by going straight to vaping. This phenomena will likely increase as Altria brings there centuries of proven addiction expertese and research to JUUL.

by goldcd 8y ago

fmj 8y ago

>Nicotine salt versions of "vape juice" have been available for ages - unsure how Juul have managed to patent this (possibly when used in a cartridge system with a juul brand on it). What sets Juul's liquid apart isn't the nicotine salts, which as you said have been done before. If I'm not mistaken Juul was the first company to use benzoic acid in their nicotine salts.

jack_h 8y ago
They may have been the first in the e-liquid world, I'm honestly not sure. However, this has been studied by tobacco companies decades prior: https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/cttr.1983.12.issue-2/cttr-2013-0524/cttr-2013-0524.pdf https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/cttr.1983.12.issue-2... Also as a possible correction, they're not adding benzoic acid to nicotine salts, rather they're using benzoic acid and freebase nicotine to make nicotine benzoate - which is a nicotine salt. I may be misunderstanding your phrasing though, if I am I apologize.

moron4hire 8y ago

Nicotine damages the liver

drewmol 8y ago

Edit: did not intend this to be rude, and I ignored your "If you consider vaping to be a smoking cessation device" qualifier. It's good for that, and for hooking teenagers apearantly. >I can't see how the salt version "isn't good" - it better mimics the thing you're trying to kick. I think there may be a misunderstanding here. This article is about the FDA "discussing the potential for drug therapy to help addicted young people quit". "The FDA has concluded that the level of addiction it is seeing among youthful e-cigarette users is so disturbing and so unprecedented that it needs to at least ask whether we need a solution that goes beyond what we ever did with cigarettes," >I fail to see how quitting with a 'hit' based approach is suddenly wrong Breaking nicotine dependance is the goal. Nicotine salt versions were available but much less common vs freebase suspentions until recently. Introducing other drugs to combat nicotine addiction seems like a more drastic and less sucessful approach vs vaping of formulations that cause less violent blood nicotine level fluctuations combined with gradual reduction in nicotine concentration. If electronic inhaled caffine delivery devices existed with newly popular caffine suspention formulations that promoted increased daily dependence and high frequency of device usage and also had rising popularity among teens and pre-teens, I would view them as a slightly more serious "bad for you" problem to address.

goldcd 8y ago
"Breaking nicotine dependance is the goal." I'd disagree. Stopping people smoking is the goal - as that's what causes the damage. Breaking nicotine dependency is definitely one way of doing this, but if it can't be broken, switching delivery mechanism from smoking is nearly as good.
- drewmol 8y ago
  I agree switching delivery mechanism from smoking to vaping is good, but in the case of this article the issue here is youth becoming nicotine addicts by going straight to vaping. This phenomena will likely increase as Altria brings there centuries of proven addiction expertese and research to JUUL.