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> Leetcode Medium, Leetcode Hard, Cracking the Coding Interview ... I feel like there is something wrong with the industry. Here is a person applying to do mob

by rdtsc 8y ago

> Leetcode Medium, Leetcode Hard, Cracking the Coding Interview ... I feel like there is something wrong with the industry. Here is a person applying to do mobile development and they need to spend weeks and weeks drilling binary tree inversions and trapping rain water (https://leetcode.com/problems/trapping-rain-water/ https://leetcode.com/problems/trapping-rain-water/) etc. I was interviewing at AWS and I don't think most of the people I talked to even looked at my resume and asked about the projects I worked on, happy customers etc. It was mostly palindromes, buckets of water and various trees, and parroting back Jeff's 14 leadership principles. Now obviously these companies are around and lots of smart people are working there and delivering great products but it just seems so strange.

kcmastrpc 8y ago
No, these tests are carefully devised to target young college graduates who will excel at these types of interviews because the material is still fresh and they have the free time to study. This is age discrimination disguised as "technical proficiency" exercises.
- president 8y ago
  This is the only industry that punishes senior and more experienced workers. I don't get the impression that this happens in other industries like healthcare and banking.
- bytematic 8y ago
  News to me students have the free time to study considering the hiring season is mid-semester during some of the hardest classes. Not to mention if they are working too
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - kkarakk 8y ago
    haha guess what, the second piece of the puzzle is that you have to be rich enough to have time to study AND a place that is close enough that commuting to college and work doesn't mentally wipe you out everyday. why do you think silicon valley isn't seen as a place with actual opportunity for everyone even though everyone inside it thinks it's wonderful?
    - kcmastrpc 8y ago
      good point, it's also disadvantageous to both women and under-represented groups in this industry.
  - kcmastrpc 8y ago
    try having kids (after school activities, birthdays, etc), spouse (anniversaries/dates), elderly parents and in-laws, a huge network of friends/colleagues whose relationships require constant maintenance (you don't see them at class everyday), fitness/wellness ... i mean, is any of this sinking in yet?
hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
I disagree. I've been out of college several decades, and if I wanted to go back into a programming job I would need several months to study these problems. Which is one of the things these problems really test: determination and effort. Look at the author of this piece - they said they studied a lot and did a ton of interviews over months. That alone is a huge positive signal that they would be someone I would want to work with. Also, it's not like these types of problems are irrelevant. Being able to understand things at a lower level (data structures, algorithms, etc.) means that there is a very high likelihood you'll be able to "dig deep" when encountering tricky technical problems on the job. I'm not saying these technical interviews are the end all/be all for what is needed to succeed on the job, but in light of how in vogue it's become to bash technical interviews (often without a viable alternative), I think it's important to point out they have a useful purpose.
- dcre 8y ago
  They really are irrelevant to the vast majority of software jobs. It's nice to be able to go deep when necessary, but that is very different from knowing a bunch of algorithms off the top of your head that you'll never have to implement.
  - hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
    I guess I'll answer from a different perspective: When I hired folks that knocked it out of the park on those kinds of technical interviews, I didn't ever have a problem with those employees from a technical skills perspective (other types of issues, like work ethic or interpersonal skills, sure). On the other hand, when I had folks who were borderline iffy on those types of questions, but we hired anyway due to success in other interviews, I came to regret that hiring decision fairly often (definitely not all the time, and some of the folks in this bucket were stellar, but certainly noticeably more technical aptitude problems on average).

by rdtsc 8y ago

kcmastrpc 8y ago

No, these tests are carefully devised to target young college graduates who will excel at these types of interviews because the material is still fresh and they have the free time to study. This is age discrimination disguised as "technical proficiency" exercises.

president 8y ago
This is the only industry that punishes senior and more experienced workers. I don't get the impression that this happens in other industries like healthcare and banking.
bytematic 8y ago
News to me students have the free time to study considering the hiring season is mid-semester during some of the hardest classes. Not to mention if they are working too
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- kkarakk 8y ago
  haha guess what, the second piece of the puzzle is that you have to be rich enough to have time to study AND a place that is close enough that commuting to college and work doesn't mentally wipe you out everyday. why do you think silicon valley isn't seen as a place with actual opportunity for everyone even though everyone inside it thinks it's wonderful?
  - kcmastrpc 8y ago
    good point, it's also disadvantageous to both women and under-represented groups in this industry.
- kcmastrpc 8y ago
  try having kids (after school activities, birthdays, etc), spouse (anniversaries/dates), elderly parents and in-laws, a huge network of friends/colleagues whose relationships require constant maintenance (you don't see them at class everyday), fitness/wellness ... i mean, is any of this sinking in yet?

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago

I disagree. I've been out of college several decades, and if I wanted to go back into a programming job I would need several months to study these problems. Which is one of the things these problems really test: determination and effort. Look at the author of this piece - they said they studied a lot and did a ton of interviews over months. That alone is a huge positive signal that they would be someone I would want to work with. Also, it's not like these types of problems are irrelevant. Being able to understand things at a lower level (data structures, algorithms, etc.) means that there is a very high likelihood you'll be able to "dig deep" when encountering tricky technical problems on the job. I'm not saying these technical interviews are the end all/be all for what is needed to succeed on the job, but in light of how in vogue it's become to bash technical interviews (often without a viable alternative), I think it's important to point out they have a useful purpose.

dcre 8y ago
They really are irrelevant to the vast majority of software jobs. It's nice to be able to go deep when necessary, but that is very different from knowing a bunch of algorithms off the top of your head that you'll never have to implement.
- hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
  I guess I'll answer from a different perspective: When I hired folks that knocked it out of the park on those kinds of technical interviews, I didn't ever have a problem with those employees from a technical skills perspective (other types of issues, like work ethic or interpersonal skills, sure). On the other hand, when I had folks who were borderline iffy on those types of questions, but we hired anyway due to success in other interviews, I came to regret that hiring decision fairly often (definitely not all the time, and some of the folks in this bucket were stellar, but certainly noticeably more technical aptitude problems on average).