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Companies like JUUL have patented formulations for nicotine salts that quickly spike blood nicotine levels similar to levels of analog cigarettes, then the sudd

Companies like JUUL have patented formulations for nicotine salts that quickly spike blood nicotine levels similar to levels of analog cigarettes, then the sudden drop off promotes stronger cravings and more frequent usage. Cavings resulting from this quick spike and drop off significantly increases habit forming behavior by boosting both the intensity of withdrawl symtoms and frequency of usage compared to freebase nicotine formulas that have been common in traditional "ejuice" of the past decade. Combine this with their cornering the teenage vaping market you can see why Altria (malboro parent co) just gave them 13B for 35%. These nic salt formulas can ease the transition from traditional cigarettes, but also increase the first time user to addict conversion rate and lessen the likelyhood of users tapering off usage by gradual reduction of comparibly stabilized nicotine levels of freebase formulations. I've been rolling around an idea for a device to help ween off nicotine for years now. I need to consult with an EE, but don't have any in my network. If anyone's willing to chat for 30 mins, or interested in colaberating I'd love to hear from you, emails in my profile. If you're aware of any service out there to buy small block of consultation time, that would help at well.

DarkStar851 8y ago
Over on r/OpenPV on Reddit someone might be able to get you the right connections. It's a subreddit community for people who build/recycle e-cigarette batteries. A lot of them are hobbyists but there's a few who've made a business out of it and they might know the right people.
- drewmol 8y ago
  thanks for the pointer I'll head down the reddit hole this weekend!
owlninja 8y ago
JUUL was the only thing that got me off a pack-a-day 13 year habit. I think very highly of the product and it is a shame teenagers made it so 'cool'. (Much like cigarettes at one time...)
- Aloha 8y ago
  Conversely, I switch to Dipping Tobacco as my quitting smoking mechanism, I dont think I can quit nicotine and stick to it, but quitting dip does seem legitimately easier than smoking, as there is much less ritual associated with it.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    Mouth cancer though. Horrible stuff.
    - goldcd 8y ago
      What death were you hoping for? I mean given a choice a first and fatal coronary blow-out as I sleep, seems pretty good. vapes bacon
    - celrod 8y ago
      My dad's dad smoked a lot when my dad was young, but managed to quit by chewing cigars. He died of mouth cancer. My dad swore off of drugs and alcohol, and always said he wanted to work until the day he dies. He's instead spent the last 10 years dying of Alzheimer's. For what it's worth, I'm inclined to follow my dad's approach. Perhaps with a different interpretation of retiring when I die. But there are some games you just can't win.
    - Aloha 8y ago
      Which is much lower than it used to be even for the same product type, you can see my other comment down thread.
  - pessimizer 8y ago
    > there is much less ritual associated with it. This is very true, but try switching to Swedish snus. Dipping tobacco still has a lot of cancer risk, whereas snus doesn't, really, so you can take your time quitting. It's the difference between roasted and steamed tobacco; it's the combustion products that get you.
    - 8y ago
radley 8y ago
Vaping can easily ween people off nicotine all by itself. Start buying 3 nic & 0 nic juices and slowly reduce the nicotine count (i.e. you can mix the two proportionally). Within a month or two you can be at 0 nic and smoke out of habit instead of compulsion. Soon after you start to forget to even do it and it fades away. The final trick though is to remember to throw it all away. Not right away - give it a few months. It'll be easy.
- justtopost 8y ago
  Wean. Ween is a kickass band.
goldcd 8y ago
Nicotine salt versions of "vape juice" have been available for ages - unsure how Juul have managed to patent this (possibly when used in a cartridge system with a juul brand on it). If you consider vaping to be a smoking cessation device, then I can't see how the salt version "isn't good" - it better mimics the thing you're trying to kick. To take an example of what existed before from pharma. Cessation was originally 'patches' - that gave you a low and slow release of nictotine. Problem with this was that it didn't mesh at all with the experience of smoking ~ "I feel tense, I need my hit hits Ahhhhh shudder" All the wonderfully approved pharma solutions recognized this. We had gum, we had mints, we had raw nicotine we could spray under our tongues to mazimize that hit to the brain. Anyway - my point from this paragraph is that I fail to see how quitting with a 'hit' based approach is suddenly wrong now it's done by vaping. Secondary point is that "addiction to nicotine" isn't actually "bad for you". Well no more so than a double-espresso-shot. If you have a puritan streak in you that feels that all chemical influence on your mood 'is bad' then 99% of your potential target is not vaping. Let's start with "glass of wine after work"
- fmj 8y ago
  >Nicotine salt versions of "vape juice" have been available for ages - unsure how Juul have managed to patent this (possibly when used in a cartridge system with a juul brand on it). What sets Juul's liquid apart isn't the nicotine salts, which as you said have been done before. If I'm not mistaken Juul was the first company to use benzoic acid in their nicotine salts.
  - jack_h 8y ago
    They may have been the first in the e-liquid world, I'm honestly not sure. However, this has been studied by tobacco companies decades prior: https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/cttr.1983.12.issue-2/cttr-2013-0524/cttr-2013-0524.pdf https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/cttr.1983.12.issue-2... Also as a possible correction, they're not adding benzoic acid to nicotine salts, rather they're using benzoic acid and freebase nicotine to make nicotine benzoate - which is a nicotine salt. I may be misunderstanding your phrasing though, if I am I apologize.
- 8y ago
refurb 8y ago
What the biological rationale as to why nicotine salts deliver a higher peak? It’s generally accepted that freebase alkaloids are most rapidly taken up by the body as they are non-polar and pass through cell membranes more quickly.

DarkStar851 8y ago

Over on r/OpenPV on Reddit someone might be able to get you the right connections. It's a subreddit community for people who build/recycle e-cigarette batteries. A lot of them are hobbyists but there's a few who've made a business out of it and they might know the right people.

drewmol 8y ago
thanks for the pointer I'll head down the reddit hole this weekend!

owlninja 8y ago

JUUL was the only thing that got me off a pack-a-day 13 year habit. I think very highly of the product and it is a shame teenagers made it so 'cool'. (Much like cigarettes at one time...)

Aloha 8y ago
Conversely, I switch to Dipping Tobacco as my quitting smoking mechanism, I dont think I can quit nicotine and stick to it, but quitting dip does seem legitimately easier than smoking, as there is much less ritual associated with it.
- ams6110 8y ago
  Mouth cancer though. Horrible stuff.
  - goldcd 8y ago
    What death were you hoping for? I mean given a choice a first and fatal coronary blow-out as I sleep, seems pretty good. vapes bacon
  - celrod 8y ago
    My dad's dad smoked a lot when my dad was young, but managed to quit by chewing cigars. He died of mouth cancer. My dad swore off of drugs and alcohol, and always said he wanted to work until the day he dies. He's instead spent the last 10 years dying of Alzheimer's. For what it's worth, I'm inclined to follow my dad's approach. Perhaps with a different interpretation of retiring when I die. But there are some games you just can't win.
  - Aloha 8y ago
    Which is much lower than it used to be even for the same product type, you can see my other comment down thread.
- pessimizer 8y ago
  > there is much less ritual associated with it. This is very true, but try switching to Swedish snus. Dipping tobacco still has a lot of cancer risk, whereas snus doesn't, really, so you can take your time quitting. It's the difference between roasted and steamed tobacco; it's the combustion products that get you.
  - 8y ago

radley 8y ago

Vaping can easily ween people off nicotine all by itself. Start buying 3 nic & 0 nic juices and slowly reduce the nicotine count (i.e. you can mix the two proportionally). Within a month or two you can be at 0 nic and smoke out of habit instead of compulsion. Soon after you start to forget to even do it and it fades away. The final trick though is to remember to throw it all away. Not right away - give it a few months. It'll be easy.

justtopost 8y ago
Wean. Ween is a kickass band.

goldcd 8y ago

Nicotine salt versions of "vape juice" have been available for ages - unsure how Juul have managed to patent this (possibly when used in a cartridge system with a juul brand on it). If you consider vaping to be a smoking cessation device, then I can't see how the salt version "isn't good" - it better mimics the thing you're trying to kick. To take an example of what existed before from pharma. Cessation was originally 'patches' - that gave you a low and slow release of nictotine. Problem with this was that it didn't mesh at all with the experience of smoking ~ "I feel tense, I need my hit hits Ahhhhh shudder" All the wonderfully approved pharma solutions recognized this. We had gum, we had mints, we had raw nicotine we could spray under our tongues to mazimize that hit to the brain. Anyway - my point from this paragraph is that I fail to see how quitting with a 'hit' based approach is suddenly wrong now it's done by vaping. Secondary point is that "addiction to nicotine" isn't actually "bad for you". Well no more so than a double-espresso-shot. If you have a puritan streak in you that feels that all chemical influence on your mood 'is bad' then 99% of your potential target is not vaping. Let's start with "glass of wine after work"

fmj 8y ago
>Nicotine salt versions of "vape juice" have been available for ages - unsure how Juul have managed to patent this (possibly when used in a cartridge system with a juul brand on it). What sets Juul's liquid apart isn't the nicotine salts, which as you said have been done before. If I'm not mistaken Juul was the first company to use benzoic acid in their nicotine salts.
- jack_h 8y ago
  They may have been the first in the e-liquid world, I'm honestly not sure. However, this has been studied by tobacco companies decades prior: https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/cttr.1983.12.issue-2/cttr-2013-0524/cttr-2013-0524.pdf https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/j/cttr.1983.12.issue-2... Also as a possible correction, they're not adding benzoic acid to nicotine salts, rather they're using benzoic acid and freebase nicotine to make nicotine benzoate - which is a nicotine salt. I may be misunderstanding your phrasing though, if I am I apologize.
8y ago

refurb 8y ago

What the biological rationale as to why nicotine salts deliver a higher peak? It’s generally accepted that freebase alkaloids are most rapidly taken up by the body as they are non-polar and pass through cell membranes more quickly.