4 ms·

Better not be openly gay in Russia! Or openly gay 15 years ago and have them scrape old data and find out.

by Zarath 8y ago

tomcam 8y ago
Or openly conservative in the USA
- markholmes 8y ago
  I’m sorry, but what? Are you suggesting that being conservative in the United States is somehow equivalent to being gay in Russia?
  - tomcam 8y ago
    Yep. Assuming you live in SV, would you like to disprove me by putting a TRUMP 2020 sign on your lawn?
    - markholmes 8y ago
      Sure, because that won’t have me thrown in jail or possibly even killed.
- smt88 8y ago
  Conservatives control our federal and most state governments. They recently had control of all three branches of the federal government. The idea that conservatives are a disenfranchised or endangered group is absolutely ludicrous.
  - dgzl 8y ago
    I disagree entirely. Being a young white male with some moderately conservative ideals in [West coast city] makes you entirely unlikable by most people who find out. This is my first hand experience. Being conservative is the new taboo.
    - nl 8y ago
      In Russia you can get to prison for being gay. In West Coast US a few people might refuse to date you. These don't seem like the same thing.
      - jlborxes 8y ago
        https://www.google.com/search?q=moscow+gay+club https://www.google.com/search?q=moscow+gay+club
        nl 8y ago
        You can also Google for prostitution services in places in the US where they are illegal. Pretty sure I don't need to link to the California Republican Party website.
        jlborxes 8y ago
        I posted the link hoping to convince you that your claim is inconsistent with the existence of huge multi-storey gay clubs in the center of Moscow. Guess I was wrong.
    - smt88 8y ago
      I don't doubt that such people experience friction, but the comment I was responding to made an analogy between being conservative in the US and being gay in Russia. The former group is the ruling class in the US. The latter group is criminalized, shamed, and sometimes murdered. Further, being gay can't harm someone else, while being conservative in a (theoretical) democracy certainly can hurt people.
      - dgzl 8y ago
        Are you trying to make the claim that, since one instance of discrimination is worse than the other, then we shouldn't try to discuss and explore other controversial examples of the discrimination, simply because they're not as bad? Even if they are more relevant to us, the commenters? I didn't see the parent claiming that their version of bigotry was worse/equal to grandparent's version, that's something you falsely assumed.
- chrischen 8y ago
  Or openly racist
owl57 8y ago
Or openly gay 15 years ago and have them scrape old data and find out. Do you have any sources on this? This kind of retroactive censorship seems to be the latest fashion in the English-speaking world [1][2][3], and it's reasonable to expect such fashion to spread in Russia, but I haven't heard of any examples. [1] https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/zmdwk3/here-are-the-homophobic-tweets-kevin-harts-not-sorry-for https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/zmdwk3/here-are-the-homo... [2] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/01/10/everton-defendermason-holgate-facing-investigation-homophic/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/01/10/everton-defe... [3] http://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/23138/conor-dalys-nascar-backing-pulled-after-fathers-alleged-use-of-the-n-word http://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/23138/conor-dalys-nascar...
VikingCoder 8y ago
I think everyone here is misinterpreting what I meant, and I take full responsibility for that. I think we thought of computers and the internet as our allies in privacy. They are not. They are our enemies. I think we should stop trusting computers, any computers, as much as we possibly can. Especially if you're in a minority that your government may try to punish.
- WilliamEdward 8y ago
  I'm actually going to reply to you twice with a similar idea. You're blatantly telling people that technology can never be trusted to be private. I just don't see why such a cynical outlook on the situation is needed, especially when it's obviously not true and the odds are not necessarily stacked against people who want privacy online or on technology.
  - VikingCoder 8y ago
    "obviously not true" If you want privacy, you must first have security, and no system is secure. I mean, just for starters, there are a constant stream of zero day exploits in OSes and Browsers that would allow me to install a keylogger on your computer, completely undetected. So why are you so anti-cynical? The situation is dire. I highly recommend "Daemon" and "Freedom" by Daniel Suarez, who was a Security Consultant. Privacy is literally life and death for people. I think trying to minimize the dangers is reckless. Cheers.
    - darpa_escapee 8y ago
      > Privacy is literally life and death for people. This is what loses most people, because they don't think it's a big deal if someone reads their Facebook messages. Privacy is what prevents gay people from getting purged in Chechnya[1]. Privacy is what keeps political dissidents and religious minorities out of concentration camps[2]. Privacy is what keeps our spies from being executed. And for those who scoff at the idea of a state-level actor coming after them: privacy is what prevents someone's abusive partner from murdering them when they choose to leave the relationship[3]. [1] https://www.npr.org/2019/01/14/685192372/https://www.npr.org/2019/01/14/685192372/activists-say-40-detained-and-2-dead-in-gay-purge-in-chechnya-say-40-detained-and-2-dead-in-gay-purge-in-chechnya https://www.npr.org/2019/01/14/685192372/https://www.npr.org... [2] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-camps-china/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-... [3] https://www.theguardian.com/money/us-money-blog/2014/oct/20/domestic-private-violence-women-men-abuse-hbo-ray-rice https://www.theguardian.com/money/us-money-blog/2014/oct/20/...

Better not be openly gay in Russia! Or openly gay 15 years ago and have them scrape old data and find out.

by Zarath 8y ago

Better not be openly gay in Russia! Or openly gay 15 years ago and have them scrape old data and find out.

tomcam 8y ago

Or openly conservative in the USA

markholmes 8y ago
I’m sorry, but what? Are you suggesting that being conservative in the United States is somehow equivalent to being gay in Russia?
- tomcam 8y ago
  Yep. Assuming you live in SV, would you like to disprove me by putting a TRUMP 2020 sign on your lawn?
  - markholmes 8y ago
    Sure, because that won’t have me thrown in jail or possibly even killed.
smt88 8y ago
Conservatives control our federal and most state governments. They recently had control of all three branches of the federal government. The idea that conservatives are a disenfranchised or endangered group is absolutely ludicrous.
- dgzl 8y ago
  I disagree entirely. Being a young white male with some moderately conservative ideals in [West coast city] makes you entirely unlikable by most people who find out. This is my first hand experience. Being conservative is the new taboo.
  - nl 8y ago
    In Russia you can get to prison for being gay. In West Coast US a few people might refuse to date you. These don't seem like the same thing.
    - jlborxes 8y ago
      https://www.google.com/search?q=moscow+gay+club https://www.google.com/search?q=moscow+gay+club
      - nl 8y ago
        You can also Google for prostitution services in places in the US where they are illegal. Pretty sure I don't need to link to the California Republican Party website.
        jlborxes 8y ago
        I posted the link hoping to convince you that your claim is inconsistent with the existence of huge multi-storey gay clubs in the center of Moscow. Guess I was wrong.
  - smt88 8y ago
    I don't doubt that such people experience friction, but the comment I was responding to made an analogy between being conservative in the US and being gay in Russia. The former group is the ruling class in the US. The latter group is criminalized, shamed, and sometimes murdered. Further, being gay can't harm someone else, while being conservative in a (theoretical) democracy certainly can hurt people.
    - dgzl 8y ago
      Are you trying to make the claim that, since one instance of discrimination is worse than the other, then we shouldn't try to discuss and explore other controversial examples of the discrimination, simply because they're not as bad? Even if they are more relevant to us, the commenters? I didn't see the parent claiming that their version of bigotry was worse/equal to grandparent's version, that's something you falsely assumed.
chrischen 8y ago
Or openly racist

owl57 8y ago

Or openly gay 15 years ago and have them scrape old data and find out. Do you have any sources on this? This kind of retroactive censorship seems to be the latest fashion in the English-speaking world [1][2][3], and it's reasonable to expect such fashion to spread in Russia, but I haven't heard of any examples. [1] https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/zmdwk3/here-are-the-homophobic-tweets-kevin-harts-not-sorry-for https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/zmdwk3/here-are-the-homo... [2] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/01/10/everton-defendermason-holgate-facing-investigation-homophic/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/01/10/everton-defe... [3] http://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/23138/conor-dalys-nascar-backing-pulled-after-fathers-alleged-use-of-the-n-word http://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/23138/conor-dalys-nascar...

VikingCoder 8y ago

I think everyone here is misinterpreting what I meant, and I take full responsibility for that. I think we thought of computers and the internet as our allies in privacy. They are not. They are our enemies. I think we should stop trusting computers, any computers, as much as we possibly can. Especially if you're in a minority that your government may try to punish.

WilliamEdward 8y ago
I'm actually going to reply to you twice with a similar idea. You're blatantly telling people that technology can never be trusted to be private. I just don't see why such a cynical outlook on the situation is needed, especially when it's obviously not true and the odds are not necessarily stacked against people who want privacy online or on technology.
- VikingCoder 8y ago
  "obviously not true" If you want privacy, you must first have security, and no system is secure. I mean, just for starters, there are a constant stream of zero day exploits in OSes and Browsers that would allow me to install a keylogger on your computer, completely undetected. So why are you so anti-cynical? The situation is dire. I highly recommend "Daemon" and "Freedom" by Daniel Suarez, who was a Security Consultant. Privacy is literally life and death for people. I think trying to minimize the dangers is reckless. Cheers.
  - darpa_escapee 8y ago
    > Privacy is literally life and death for people. This is what loses most people, because they don't think it's a big deal if someone reads their Facebook messages. Privacy is what prevents gay people from getting purged in Chechnya[1]. Privacy is what keeps political dissidents and religious minorities out of concentration camps[2]. Privacy is what keeps our spies from being executed. And for those who scoff at the idea of a state-level actor coming after them: privacy is what prevents someone's abusive partner from murdering them when they choose to leave the relationship[3]. [1] https://www.npr.org/2019/01/14/685192372/https://www.npr.org/2019/01/14/685192372/activists-say-40-detained-and-2-dead-in-gay-purge-in-chechnya-say-40-detained-and-2-dead-in-gay-purge-in-chechnya https://www.npr.org/2019/01/14/685192372/https://www.npr.org... [2] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-camps-china/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-... [3] https://www.theguardian.com/money/us-money-blog/2014/oct/20/domestic-private-violence-women-men-abuse-hbo-ray-rice https://www.theguardian.com/money/us-money-blog/2014/oct/20/...