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Nicotine is viciously addictive. I don't see how anyone could consider one of the most addictive substances, and its associated withdrawal symptoms, to be "harm

Nicotine is viciously addictive. I don't see how anyone could consider one of the most addictive substances, and its associated withdrawal symptoms, to be "harmless". And yes, nicotine replacement therapy has a decent track record compared to other methods, which should not be surprising since you don't have to actual break the addiction. You just maintain the same addiction with a different delivery system. Interestingly, vaping itself is just another nicotine delivery system, but one that the anti-smoking zealots decided to demonize, unlike the various inhalers, patches and gums they push.

dageshi 8y ago
Nicotine addictiveness seems to vary based on consumption method, I say that as someone who smokes cigars but doesn't inhale (common practice among cigar smokers), I don't find cigars addictive in the least.
- Konnstann 8y ago
  how do you smoke without inhaling the smoke? Genuinely curious, I thought the whole point was to inhale the smoke, otherwise you don't get any flavor.
  - kgwgk 8y ago
    You can taste wine and spit instead of swallowing, to give just one of many examples.
  - dageshi 8y ago
    Ahh by inhale I mean you don't inhale into your lungs, mouth only. You take the smoke into your mouth where you can taste it but continue to breath freely through your nose without taking any smoke down into your lungs. You do absorb nicotine through the lining of your mouth and it's not without risk, mouth cancer is a possibility but my understanding is it's a much lesser risk than smoke in the lungs. Finally you can retrohale where you allow some smoke to come up through the sinuses and out via the nose, which allows you to pickup some extra flavour.
  - AlgorithmicTime 8y ago
    Your lungs don't have taste buds, those are in your mouth. You take the smoke in your mouth, mainly. You might pump it through your nose, too.
subcosmos 8y ago
It is viciously addictive, yes, but it's all that other crap in cigarettes that lead to lung cancer and heart disease, two of the largest killers of all people. Would you rather people be addicted to just the nocotine, or the nicotine plus carcinogens?
- snuxoll 8y ago
  Don't forget the MAOI's that also contribute to the addiction.
SilasX 8y ago
>Nicotine is viciously addictive. I don't see how anyone could consider one of the most addictive substances, and its associated withdrawal symptoms, to be "harmless". Addictive stuff is bad if taking it has other negative effects. Food, water, and air are likewise addictive, but that doesn’t mean you should do without. You’d need to cite something other than being addictive to establish a reason to avoid them entirely. >And yes, nicotine replacement therapy has a decent track record compared to other methods, which should not be surprising since you don't have to actual break the addiction. You just maintain the same addiction with a different delivery system. I think the idea is to follow them up with a tapering off of the nicotine levels, which is much easier at that point.
- matthewmacleod 8y ago
  I think the idea is to follow them up with a tapering off of the nicotine levels, which is much easier at that point. And indeed, if you fail to taper off, at least you’re doing yourself much less harm.
- empath75 8y ago
  > Addictive stuff is bad if taking it has other negative effects. The definition of addiction includes negative consequences. If there aren't any, it's not an addiction.
  - SilasX 8y ago
    Then my point is equivalent to saying that the parent didn’t establish it as being addictive under that definition. Dictionary definitions don't help resolve a debate on the substantive points.
- edflsafoiewq 8y ago
  > Food, water, and air are likewise addictive This is a perverse usage. The physiological need for food, water, or air is innate; it arises from your body itself, not the action of the external substance on your body. Additionally they do not induce the classical development of tolerance. Many people would hold that addiction itself is bad. Even if there are no other negative effects, there is the effect of dependence on the addictive substance and commensurate loss of independence (the addiction always occupies some mental space since you must always think about how you are going to satisfy it).
phkahler 8y ago
>> Nicotine is viciously addictive. I hope you are equally against sugar which is also addictive and has much worse adverse effects than nicotine.
- giggles_giggles 8y ago
  I've never had a panic attack at the airport because I couldn't have sugar for a couple of hours, but I have had one because I couldn't vape. I've never yelled at a coworker because I couldn't have a cookie, but I did when I was quitting nicotine because it made me feel insane. I've never lashed out at my girlfriend because I couldn't have a Coca-Cola, but I did many times when my vape's battery had died and she wanted to stay out of the house a little longer, or I had run out of e-juice. I quit a couple months ago and it's been life changing, just to not have the dependence. When I give up sugar I do not instantly find that my relationships are easier to manage, for instance, without the demon of sugar addiction popping up into my brain to have me lash out at my loved ones who are standing in the way of another hit of sugar. Even putting it that way sounds absurd, but swap in nicotine and it makes perfect sense. Obviously you don't understand the true mind-bending power of nicotine. The comparison to sugar is one that could really only be made by someone who has never experienced a nicotine addiction. I say this as someone who loves sugar and tries to cut back. It's not the same. It's not even slightly the same.
  - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
    I worked with this guy. One day, there was a piece of paper stuck up outside his cube that said (as best I remember): "I am trying to quit smoking. I am a Vietnam vet and I have worked in the post office. All that is standing between you and sudden death is this silly little patch I am wearing. Be very kind to me." Yeah, nicotine withdrawal can be a real thing.
  - SilasX 8y ago
    >I've never had a panic attack at the airport because I couldn't have sugar for a couple of hours, but I have had one because I couldn't vape. Maybe you haven’t, but low blood sugar diabetic emergencies are a thing.
namlem 8y ago
Tobacco is viciously addictive. Nicotine on its own is only mildly addictive. Tobacco contains MAOIs that potentiate nicotine.

dageshi 8y ago

Nicotine addictiveness seems to vary based on consumption method, I say that as someone who smokes cigars but doesn't inhale (common practice among cigar smokers), I don't find cigars addictive in the least.

Konnstann 8y ago
how do you smoke without inhaling the smoke? Genuinely curious, I thought the whole point was to inhale the smoke, otherwise you don't get any flavor.
- kgwgk 8y ago
  You can taste wine and spit instead of swallowing, to give just one of many examples.
- dageshi 8y ago
  Ahh by inhale I mean you don't inhale into your lungs, mouth only. You take the smoke into your mouth where you can taste it but continue to breath freely through your nose without taking any smoke down into your lungs. You do absorb nicotine through the lining of your mouth and it's not without risk, mouth cancer is a possibility but my understanding is it's a much lesser risk than smoke in the lungs. Finally you can retrohale where you allow some smoke to come up through the sinuses and out via the nose, which allows you to pickup some extra flavour.
- AlgorithmicTime 8y ago
  Your lungs don't have taste buds, those are in your mouth. You take the smoke in your mouth, mainly. You might pump it through your nose, too.

subcosmos 8y ago

It is viciously addictive, yes, but it's all that other crap in cigarettes that lead to lung cancer and heart disease, two of the largest killers of all people. Would you rather people be addicted to just the nocotine, or the nicotine plus carcinogens?

snuxoll 8y ago
Don't forget the MAOI's that also contribute to the addiction.

SilasX 8y ago

>Nicotine is viciously addictive. I don't see how anyone could consider one of the most addictive substances, and its associated withdrawal symptoms, to be "harmless". Addictive stuff is bad if taking it has other negative effects. Food, water, and air are likewise addictive, but that doesn’t mean you should do without. You’d need to cite something other than being addictive to establish a reason to avoid them entirely. >And yes, nicotine replacement therapy has a decent track record compared to other methods, which should not be surprising since you don't have to actual break the addiction. You just maintain the same addiction with a different delivery system. I think the idea is to follow them up with a tapering off of the nicotine levels, which is much easier at that point.

matthewmacleod 8y ago
I think the idea is to follow them up with a tapering off of the nicotine levels, which is much easier at that point. And indeed, if you fail to taper off, at least you’re doing yourself much less harm.
empath75 8y ago
> Addictive stuff is bad if taking it has other negative effects. The definition of addiction includes negative consequences. If there aren't any, it's not an addiction.
- SilasX 8y ago
  Then my point is equivalent to saying that the parent didn’t establish it as being addictive under that definition. Dictionary definitions don't help resolve a debate on the substantive points.
edflsafoiewq 8y ago
> Food, water, and air are likewise addictive This is a perverse usage. The physiological need for food, water, or air is innate; it arises from your body itself, not the action of the external substance on your body. Additionally they do not induce the classical development of tolerance. Many people would hold that addiction itself is bad. Even if there are no other negative effects, there is the effect of dependence on the addictive substance and commensurate loss of independence (the addiction always occupies some mental space since you must always think about how you are going to satisfy it).

phkahler 8y ago

>> Nicotine is viciously addictive. I hope you are equally against sugar which is also addictive and has much worse adverse effects than nicotine.

giggles_giggles 8y ago
I've never had a panic attack at the airport because I couldn't have sugar for a couple of hours, but I have had one because I couldn't vape. I've never yelled at a coworker because I couldn't have a cookie, but I did when I was quitting nicotine because it made me feel insane. I've never lashed out at my girlfriend because I couldn't have a Coca-Cola, but I did many times when my vape's battery had died and she wanted to stay out of the house a little longer, or I had run out of e-juice. I quit a couple months ago and it's been life changing, just to not have the dependence. When I give up sugar I do not instantly find that my relationships are easier to manage, for instance, without the demon of sugar addiction popping up into my brain to have me lash out at my loved ones who are standing in the way of another hit of sugar. Even putting it that way sounds absurd, but swap in nicotine and it makes perfect sense. Obviously you don't understand the true mind-bending power of nicotine. The comparison to sugar is one that could really only be made by someone who has never experienced a nicotine addiction. I say this as someone who loves sugar and tries to cut back. It's not the same. It's not even slightly the same.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  I worked with this guy. One day, there was a piece of paper stuck up outside his cube that said (as best I remember): "I am trying to quit smoking. I am a Vietnam vet and I have worked in the post office. All that is standing between you and sudden death is this silly little patch I am wearing. Be very kind to me." Yeah, nicotine withdrawal can be a real thing.
- SilasX 8y ago
  >I've never had a panic attack at the airport because I couldn't have sugar for a couple of hours, but I have had one because I couldn't vape. Maybe you haven’t, but low blood sugar diabetic emergencies are a thing.

namlem 8y ago

Tobacco is viciously addictive. Nicotine on its own is only mildly addictive. Tobacco contains MAOIs that potentiate nicotine.