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Let me defend the philly suburbs for a second here: The actual philly grid extends _quite_ far out, ~hour drive outside city center. On top of that, the light

Let me defend the philly suburbs for a second here: The actual philly grid extends _quite_ far out, ~hour drive outside city center. On top of that, the light rail goes WAY outside in a bunch of key directions, with rather impressive bus connections. Don't get me wrong, as a now-seattlite I would be remiss to criticize robust road transportation (god knows ours isn't) but I think you're looking at Philly through the wrong lense. I never needed, wanted, or had any friends who wanted a car while living there (especially since more modern tooling like zipcar and now ridesharing), and I miss that greatly. I don't think I could manage the commute I did via public transit alone in many cities other than some of the NE hubs you mention. (I'd add boston in too, at least back when I was there the T+Bus connections were great)

amyjess 8y ago
It doesn't extend very far into the western suburbs, though. Example: https://goo.gl/maps/TZDgVrsLsbE2 https://goo.gl/maps/TZDgVrsLsbE2 At the same zoom level here are some exurbs of Dallas (Frisco and McKinney to be specific) which are pretty close to the edge of continuous development: https://goo.gl/maps/MsQBWBX9pH12 https://goo.gl/maps/MsQBWBX9pH12 This part of the Dallas area is much farther out from Downtown Dallas than the first screenshot is from Downtown Philly. (Also, this bit here isn't about Dallas vs. Philly, but here's a selection that shows off why I love Dallas's grid so much -- https://goo.gl/maps/1NEtE6WnYX42 https://goo.gl/maps/1NEtE6WnYX42 -- it's from Plano, an inner-ring suburb that was mostly built out in the '80s and '90s and probably some of the '00s. Note that there are shopping centers at almost every single intersection of arterials. Since arterials are on a one-mile grid, this means that no matter where you live, you are never more than sqrt(2)/2 mi. from a place to shop even though you're living in a very pleasant suburban subdivision.)
- existencebox 8y ago
  You're not wrong but I think that misses my point. http://www.septa.org/maps/system/ http://www.septa.org/maps/system/ The rail offers great coverage way into the western parts where the grid breaks down. To avoid us talking past each other, recognize that to me the whole "Grid with shopping centers on every arterial intersection" seems like the most horrific implementation of corporate "pleasantville" I could imagine. Echoing what I said before, what I found beneficial about Philly is being able to traverse so many different areas and vibes with only public transit. I bring this up exclusively to advocate for rail, because it often seems to be subsumed under the "build better/more roads." (Which, again, I broadly support, but the positive impact accessible rail had to my life cannot be understated)

amyjess 8y ago

It doesn't extend very far into the western suburbs, though. Example: https://goo.gl/maps/TZDgVrsLsbE2 https://goo.gl/maps/TZDgVrsLsbE2 At the same zoom level here are some exurbs of Dallas (Frisco and McKinney to be specific) which are pretty close to the edge of continuous development: https://goo.gl/maps/MsQBWBX9pH12 https://goo.gl/maps/MsQBWBX9pH12 This part of the Dallas area is much farther out from Downtown Dallas than the first screenshot is from Downtown Philly. (Also, this bit here isn't about Dallas vs. Philly, but here's a selection that shows off why I love Dallas's grid so much -- https://goo.gl/maps/1NEtE6WnYX42 https://goo.gl/maps/1NEtE6WnYX42 -- it's from Plano, an inner-ring suburb that was mostly built out in the '80s and '90s and probably some of the '00s. Note that there are shopping centers at almost every single intersection of arterials. Since arterials are on a one-mile grid, this means that no matter where you live, you are never more than sqrt(2)/2 mi. from a place to shop even though you're living in a very pleasant suburban subdivision.)

existencebox 8y ago
You're not wrong but I think that misses my point. http://www.septa.org/maps/system/ http://www.septa.org/maps/system/ The rail offers great coverage way into the western parts where the grid breaks down. To avoid us talking past each other, recognize that to me the whole "Grid with shopping centers on every arterial intersection" seems like the most horrific implementation of corporate "pleasantville" I could imagine. Echoing what I said before, what I found beneficial about Philly is being able to traverse so many different areas and vibes with only public transit. I bring this up exclusively to advocate for rail, because it often seems to be subsumed under the "build better/more roads." (Which, again, I broadly support, but the positive impact accessible rail had to my life cannot be understated)