4 ms·

Looks cool but it ignores what Dart brings over everything else: Hot reload.

by rhodysurf 8y ago

pjmlp 8y ago
Ah that feature I was using during the 90s for GUI development, but apparently was invented by Dart.
- hexmiles 8y ago
  What were you using that supported hot reload?
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Commercial Common Lisp and Smalltalk environments with student packages while at the university, before Java was announced to the world.
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      In a lot of Smalltalk environments, you could change the function's (method's) code in the debugger, referencing state to help follow what's going on, roll back enough stack frames to be safe, then continue. People built entire systems like that.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- coldtea 8y ago
  Anything mainstream with actual jobs attached, or some bizarro language that nobody used except for some research OS or something?
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Common Lisp and Smalltalk had actual jobs attached during the 90's, and there are still people getting paid to use those systems on enterprise settings. LispWorks, Allegro, Cincom, GemTalk are still in business.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      Yeah, I thought so.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        Ah so for you Common Lisp and Smalltalk are bizarre languages, good to know. Please don't be shy and let us know about all those amazing Flutter/Dart applications in production that outnumber any of those vendors, both in customer base and business value. Other than Ad Words that is. I start with a couple, - Google's own ITA (CL) - Siscog traffic management solutions used across European train networks (CL) - JP Morgan financial risk management (Smalltalk)
        coldtea 8y ago
        >Ah so for you Common Lisp and Smalltalk are bizarre languages, good to know. I like both of them, and they're historically important languages, but are not mainstream, and weren't mainstream even on their heyday. I expected you to mean some post-Pascal Wirth-derived language though, or some other such project. >Please don't be shy and let us know about all those amazing Flutter/Dart applications in production that outnumber any of those vendors, both in customer base and business value. Well, Flutter 1.0 was just announced on Dec 2018 (so like a month ago) and the others had a 4+ decade headstart. Still, some historical CL/Smalltalk apps aside (few enough to be enumerated in "success stories" style posts), in 2-3 years there will be more Flutter/Dart apps than CL and Smalltalk apps combined. Heck, there are more Go apps in production "that outnumber any of those vendors, both in customer base and business value", and that went 1.0 less than 7 years ago. If a language can enumerate it's success stories, it has already lost the popularity game. I've read the same "success stories" (and more) in Lisp forums and Smalltalk advocacy posts. In fact, Dart before Flutter, was in the same boat "yeah, we use it in Google's ad management, and company X uses it for Y". But I have no doubt it will explode in popularity with Flutter.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    A variety of industrial Lisp-family languages (most notably including CL). Smalltalk. Erlang. Elixir. Ruby. Java (limited in core JDK/OpenJDK, though there is third-party support for more complete hot swapping via DECVM and HotswapAgent).
- rhodysurf 8y ago
  More that it isnt possible with Go because of its statically linked binaries. You could prob do it swizzling/intercepting ObjC methods I would assume.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Go has support for dynamic linking for a while now, and ongoing plugin support on some OSes currently.
repolfx 8y ago
You can do hot reload for a long time with Java already. Go download TornadoFX and experiment with its hot reload functionality to see what you can do. This is definitely not a feature invented by Dart. From what I recall when I last looked at Dart/Flutter it doesn't have any new features not previously seen elsewhere.

Looks cool but it ignores what Dart brings over everything else: Hot reload.

pjmlp 8y ago

Ah that feature I was using during the 90s for GUI development, but apparently was invented by Dart.

hexmiles 8y ago
What were you using that supported hot reload?
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Commercial Common Lisp and Smalltalk environments with student packages while at the university, before Java was announced to the world.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    In a lot of Smalltalk environments, you could change the function's (method's) code in the debugger, referencing state to help follow what's going on, roll back enough stack frames to be safe, then continue. People built entire systems like that.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
coldtea 8y ago
Anything mainstream with actual jobs attached, or some bizarro language that nobody used except for some research OS or something?
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Common Lisp and Smalltalk had actual jobs attached during the 90's, and there are still people getting paid to use those systems on enterprise settings. LispWorks, Allegro, Cincom, GemTalk are still in business.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Yeah, I thought so.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Ah so for you Common Lisp and Smalltalk are bizarre languages, good to know. Please don't be shy and let us know about all those amazing Flutter/Dart applications in production that outnumber any of those vendors, both in customer base and business value. Other than Ad Words that is. I start with a couple, - Google's own ITA (CL) - Siscog traffic management solutions used across European train networks (CL) - JP Morgan financial risk management (Smalltalk)
      - coldtea 8y ago
        >Ah so for you Common Lisp and Smalltalk are bizarre languages, good to know. I like both of them, and they're historically important languages, but are not mainstream, and weren't mainstream even on their heyday. I expected you to mean some post-Pascal Wirth-derived language though, or some other such project. >Please don't be shy and let us know about all those amazing Flutter/Dart applications in production that outnumber any of those vendors, both in customer base and business value. Well, Flutter 1.0 was just announced on Dec 2018 (so like a month ago) and the others had a 4+ decade headstart. Still, some historical CL/Smalltalk apps aside (few enough to be enumerated in "success stories" style posts), in 2-3 years there will be more Flutter/Dart apps than CL and Smalltalk apps combined. Heck, there are more Go apps in production "that outnumber any of those vendors, both in customer base and business value", and that went 1.0 less than 7 years ago. If a language can enumerate it's success stories, it has already lost the popularity game. I've read the same "success stories" (and more) in Lisp forums and Smalltalk advocacy posts. In fact, Dart before Flutter, was in the same boat "yeah, we use it in Google's ad management, and company X uses it for Y". But I have no doubt it will explode in popularity with Flutter.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  A variety of industrial Lisp-family languages (most notably including CL). Smalltalk. Erlang. Elixir. Ruby. Java (limited in core JDK/OpenJDK, though there is third-party support for more complete hot swapping via DECVM and HotswapAgent).
rhodysurf 8y ago
More that it isnt possible with Go because of its statically linked binaries. You could prob do it swizzling/intercepting ObjC methods I would assume.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Go has support for dynamic linking for a while now, and ongoing plugin support on some OSes currently.

repolfx 8y ago

You can do hot reload for a long time with Java already. Go download TornadoFX and experiment with its hot reload functionality to see what you can do. This is definitely not a feature invented by Dart. From what I recall when I last looked at Dart/Flutter it doesn't have any new features not previously seen elsewhere.