4 ms·

I agree with what you quoted completely. What part don't you understand?

ben509 8y ago
Why is elitism implied to be a bad thing in this context? Professional standards and ethics are something we should strive for, right? For those to work, you have to discern between people who uphold those standards and people who don't. There are places where egalitarianism is most appropriate, e.g. in tallying political interests, and where elitism is most appropriate, e.g. no one wants an amateur surgeon. Even if they want to open the group to hobbyists, as a professional I have more in common with a hobbyist who actively maintains a software project than one who doesn't actively contribute; specifically, if you're having a discussion about software you're largely on the same page with the former. That's ultimately the point of association, it's to improve conversation by gathering people who have a shared understanding.
- cat199 8y ago
  > Why is elitism implied to be a bad thing in this context? because, judging by the left-fist logo and focus on control of the means of production / classes / etc. this organization probably has a left/populist ideological basis
- lucozade 8y ago
  > Professional standards and ethics are something we should strive for, right? The argument in issue #5 seems to be against ACM's position which they say is that professionalism implies professional detachment. In other words being agnostic to the use to which computers are put.
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  The ambiguity of the English language may be at fault here. "Professional" can mean either or both of "upholds high standards of behavior" or "gets paid for this." I think the group intended #1, but was worried people would think they only wanted #2. Shockingly few of #2 actually fit #1, in my experience, so it's important to distinguish.
stronglikedan 8y ago
One can understand something yet not agree with it. For instance, I understand how the "Professional" label potentially limited the scope of the group, but I disagree that it smacked of elitism.

Why is elitism implied to be a bad thing in this context? Professional standards and ethics are something we should strive for, right? For those to work, you have to discern between people who uphold those standards and people who don't. There are places where egalitarianism is most appropriate, e.g. in tallying political interests, and where elitism is most appropriate, e.g. no one wants an amateur surgeon. Even if they want to open the group to hobbyists, as a professional I have more in common with a hobbyist who actively maintains a software project than one who doesn't actively contribute; specifically, if you're having a discussion about software you're largely on the same page with the former. That's ultimately the point of association, it's to improve conversation by gathering people who have a shared understanding.

cat199 8y ago
> Why is elitism implied to be a bad thing in this context? because, judging by the left-fist logo and focus on control of the means of production / classes / etc. this organization probably has a left/populist ideological basis
lucozade 8y ago
> Professional standards and ethics are something we should strive for, right? The argument in issue #5 seems to be against ACM's position which they say is that professionalism implies professional detachment. In other words being agnostic to the use to which computers are put.
PhasmaFelis 8y ago
The ambiguity of the English language may be at fault here. "Professional" can mean either or both of "upholds high standards of behavior" or "gets paid for this." I think the group intended #1, but was worried people would think they only wanted #2. Shockingly few of #2 actually fit #1, in my experience, so it's important to distinguish.

stronglikedan 8y ago

One can understand something yet not agree with it. For instance, I understand how the "Professional" label potentially limited the scope of the group, but I disagree that it smacked of elitism.