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> Leaf didn't change anything. Citation needed. Nissan has sold 400,000 of them to date. I believe that once the initial backorder is addressed and Model 3's

> Leaf didn't change anything. Citation needed. Nissan has sold 400,000 of them to date. I believe that once the initial backorder is addressed and Model 3's get some miles under their belts we will see the various subpar engineering & manufacturing issues highlighted in the teardowns come back to bite. https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-model-3-teardown-deconstructed-3/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-model-3-teardown-decon... The model 3 excels where the SV talent was brought to bear but it's long term durability is clearly suspect; too many parts, too many fasteners on too heavy a frame. And that will have serious consequences for the brand over time.

virgilp 8y ago
Let me rephrase: I can't name a single market development that I can convincingly argue was significantly influenced by the launch (or success) of Nissan Leaf. Nissan is way more effective than Tesla at mass-production, yes. But there's not one single market where Leaf is their most successful model (certainly true for 2017, I suspect for 2018 htat's also true). [edit] Maybe that's true; I'm not saying that Tesla will win the market long term. To make an analogy: you can say Tesla is Blackberry, not Apple. Maybe they don't "own" the smartphone market, and maybe in the end they day - BUT, they left their mark. Thay have had decisive influence in the industry. The Nissan Leaf? From where I stand, it looks like a Nokia Communicator - or worse. A product that does sell, true - but mostly because of the parent company; eventually it doesn't leave a lasting mark.
- sokoloff 8y ago
  I daily drive a LEAF for 4 years now. It's not the most technically advanced electric car (for sure!). It doesn't have the longest range. What it does have is "incredibly cheap (among new cars)" "widely available" and "very low maintenance (mine has literally only needed wiper blades and has never darkened the service bay of the dealership since delivery)". Price is a feature. I suspect the LEAF has done a lot more to drive Chargepoint network adoption, as just one example of a market development where the LEAF is more influential than Tesla.
- Thlom 8y ago
  The Leaf is by far Nissans most successful model in Norway. It's actually the most sold car in Norway. Nissan sold 3 times as many Leafs as Tesla sold Model X (the most sold Tesla in Norway last year).
  - virgilp 8y ago
    Nissan breaks their revenue by " Japan/ China / North America / Europe / Other Markets ". Norway is part of Europe, and in Europe Qashqai sold better. https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DOCUMENT/PDF/AR/2018/AR18_E_All.pdf https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DOCUMENT/PDF/AR/2018/AR18_E...
- blub 8y ago
  No, the Leaf is like the AK-74 and Tesla is a Steyr AUG.
jdietrich 8y ago
Most people in the industry will concede that Tesla forced everyone else to up their game. Tesla were unreasonably ambitious, but that ambition lit a fire under the established players. Between 2010 and 2015, the Leaf had a 24kWh battery. They added a 30kWh option in 2016, then launched an all-new model in 2017 with a 40kWh battery. At this year's CES, Nissan announced a 64kWh model. There's a clear inflection point that coincides with the announcement of the Model 3, which is matched by several other manufacturers. The huge amount of media attention and customer interest convinced the motor industry that there is a substantial latent demand for affordable EVs with >200mi range. It's perfectly reasonable to argue that established manufacturers are making better EVs because the technology improved, but Tesla drove a lot of that improvement. They were the first manufacturer to grasp the significance of battery thermal management, something that Nissan is still struggling with. They were the first to demonstrate the improvements in interior capacity and comfort that come from a purpose-built EV platform rather than retrofitting electric propulsion to an ICE platform. The threat posed by the Gigafactory persuaded/forced LG, Samsung and Panasonic to seriously ramp up production of 21700 cells. Tesla aren't a great car company in my opinion, I think they're hugely over-valued, I think there's a real chance that they'll be bankrupt within the next five years, but they did something very important by taking a moonshot on a truly modern EV.

virgilp 8y ago

Let me rephrase: I can't name a single market development that I can convincingly argue was significantly influenced by the launch (or success) of Nissan Leaf. Nissan is way more effective than Tesla at mass-production, yes. But there's not one single market where Leaf is their most successful model (certainly true for 2017, I suspect for 2018 htat's also true). [edit] Maybe that's true; I'm not saying that Tesla will win the market long term. To make an analogy: you can say Tesla is Blackberry, not Apple. Maybe they don't "own" the smartphone market, and maybe in the end they day - BUT, they left their mark. Thay have had decisive influence in the industry. The Nissan Leaf? From where I stand, it looks like a Nokia Communicator - or worse. A product that does sell, true - but mostly because of the parent company; eventually it doesn't leave a lasting mark.

sokoloff 8y ago
I daily drive a LEAF for 4 years now. It's not the most technically advanced electric car (for sure!). It doesn't have the longest range. What it does have is "incredibly cheap (among new cars)" "widely available" and "very low maintenance (mine has literally only needed wiper blades and has never darkened the service bay of the dealership since delivery)". Price is a feature. I suspect the LEAF has done a lot more to drive Chargepoint network adoption, as just one example of a market development where the LEAF is more influential than Tesla.
Thlom 8y ago
The Leaf is by far Nissans most successful model in Norway. It's actually the most sold car in Norway. Nissan sold 3 times as many Leafs as Tesla sold Model X (the most sold Tesla in Norway last year).
- virgilp 8y ago
  Nissan breaks their revenue by " Japan/ China / North America / Europe / Other Markets ". Norway is part of Europe, and in Europe Qashqai sold better. https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DOCUMENT/PDF/AR/2018/AR18_E_All.pdf https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DOCUMENT/PDF/AR/2018/AR18_E...
blub 8y ago
No, the Leaf is like the AK-74 and Tesla is a Steyr AUG.

jdietrich 8y ago

Most people in the industry will concede that Tesla forced everyone else to up their game. Tesla were unreasonably ambitious, but that ambition lit a fire under the established players. Between 2010 and 2015, the Leaf had a 24kWh battery. They added a 30kWh option in 2016, then launched an all-new model in 2017 with a 40kWh battery. At this year's CES, Nissan announced a 64kWh model. There's a clear inflection point that coincides with the announcement of the Model 3, which is matched by several other manufacturers. The huge amount of media attention and customer interest convinced the motor industry that there is a substantial latent demand for affordable EVs with >200mi range. It's perfectly reasonable to argue that established manufacturers are making better EVs because the technology improved, but Tesla drove a lot of that improvement. They were the first manufacturer to grasp the significance of battery thermal management, something that Nissan is still struggling with. They were the first to demonstrate the improvements in interior capacity and comfort that come from a purpose-built EV platform rather than retrofitting electric propulsion to an ICE platform. The threat posed by the Gigafactory persuaded/forced LG, Samsung and Panasonic to seriously ramp up production of 21700 cells. Tesla aren't a great car company in my opinion, I think they're hugely over-valued, I think there's a real chance that they'll be bankrupt within the next five years, but they did something very important by taking a moonshot on a truly modern EV.