5 ms·

Slandering the Unborn (2018)

17 points by cribbles 8y ago

monochromatic 8y ago
> The New York Times, The Washington Post, Time, Newsweek and others further demonized black women “addicts” by wrongly reporting that they were giving birth to a generation of neurologically damaged children who were less than fully human and who would bankrupt the schools and social service agencies once they came of age. Neurological damage, sure. “Less than fully human” though? I don’t think I believe it was reported that way.
- mc32 8y ago
  Maybe they are projecting what they now think they really thought? Unfortunately we’re findung out news organizations yesterday and today are not about disseminating news but about narrative. This article is meta narrative.
realnice 8y ago
Pinned to the front page, while highly political, but why?
- coldtea 8y ago
  Because political is not a taboo?
cat199 8y ago
> Legislative intrusion into the womb has a long history in the United States, and nowhere is this paternalism more forceful than when illegal drugs are part of the equation. a) legislation on everything has a long history everywhere b) 'forceful intrusion'. I see what you did there. c) Paternalism? why does legislation have a gender? if it concerns motherhood, why is it not then materialism? What are we presupposing by this? so really, subtext wise, legislating anything to do with pregnancy is basically rape of women by males, even if it is proposed by females, because it is 'paternalistic' and 'forcefully intrudes' into the womb. right. got it. > By the time the epidemic was over, the view that the fetus was a person with rights superseding the mother’s had gained considerable traction in practice. So please, tell me more about this 'novel view' that didn't exist before, and how it was created directly and specifically as a result of incorrect negative imagery used in the so-called war on drugs. Yeah.. no. Someone is mad that their particular viewpoint w/r/t pregnancy is not as popular as it once was, and is digging up all the self-referential straw men needed to define it in order to 'prove' that they are still there.
- watwut 8y ago
  Paternalism does not imply male, it means person in authority restricting freedom.
- deogeo 8y ago
  Regarding c), it's called 'paternalism' because pro-life attitudes, the source of this legislation, have greater support among men than women: http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/ http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortio... ...whoops, no, sorry, that data shows 36% of women and 37% of men are pro-life, practically the same. But maybe we could blame blacks and hispanics? Criminalizing abortion has 35% support among whites, 38% among blacks, and 44% among hispanics.
  - detaro 8y ago
    The definition of "paternalism" does not mention gender (see e.g. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paternalism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paternalism), so the straw man you built doesn't apply
    - deogeo 8y ago
      'Paternalism' is associated with men - it contains the latin word for 'father', and means ".. the manner of a father dealing benevolently and often intrusively with his children" according to https://www.dictionary.com/browse/paternalism https://www.dictionary.com/browse/paternalism And in this article, it was deliberately chosen for its association with men - it's clearly the wrong word, even without its connotations of gender. Only laws that are meant to prevent you from harming yourself are paternalistic, not from harming others. E.g. banning high-sugar foods, driving without seat-belts, etc. You wouldn't call laws against assault, murder, or theft 'paternalistic', would you?
- suffrage 8y ago
  Women didn’t have the right to vote in the United States, until 1920. So, patriarchy stems from that fact. Other countries have different years, before voting was extended to women, and sometimes the pretext wasn’t unconditional, requiring land ownership or other qualifiers. Meanwhile, “paternal” in the context of politics is an expression for degree of intervention or invasiveness of government overreach, and is less referential to male or female qualities directly. The term often reflects a strict fatherland, and less a nurturing motherland, again with the qualities as abstractions. A paternalistic government is less tyrranical, but more insistent on the adoption of customs, even if those customs aren’t sexist or chauvanistic. Paternalism differs from “patriarchy” in that a patriarchy directly refers to the identity of the constituents of the regime in control, while paternalism only hints that the regime in question has imposed unpopular policies “for your own good” like eating your vegetables, but not to the extent of totalitarian brainwashing. Maternalism woulf be more akin to providing benefits and preventative maintenance of citizenry. Usually the prlance for maternalism often gets branded as socialism to cast a negative light.
zozbot123 8y ago
I don't know about "crack babies" specifically, but FAS is no joke. It's not exactly unheard of for drugs used in pregnancy to have very severe effects on the developing baby.

17 points by cribbles 8y ago

> The New York Times, The Washington Post, Time, Newsweek and others further demonized black women “addicts” by wrongly reporting that they were giving birth to a generation of neurologically damaged children who were less than fully human and who would bankrupt the schools and social service agencies once they came of age. Neurological damage, sure. “Less than fully human” though? I don’t think I believe it was reported that way.

mc32 8y ago
Maybe they are projecting what they now think they really thought? Unfortunately we’re findung out news organizations yesterday and today are not about disseminating news but about narrative. This article is meta narrative.

realnice 8y ago

Pinned to the front page, while highly political, but why?

coldtea 8y ago
Because political is not a taboo?

cat199 8y ago

> Legislative intrusion into the womb has a long history in the United States, and nowhere is this paternalism more forceful than when illegal drugs are part of the equation. a) legislation on everything has a long history everywhere b) 'forceful intrusion'. I see what you did there. c) Paternalism? why does legislation have a gender? if it concerns motherhood, why is it not then materialism? What are we presupposing by this? so really, subtext wise, legislating anything to do with pregnancy is basically rape of women by males, even if it is proposed by females, because it is 'paternalistic' and 'forcefully intrudes' into the womb. right. got it. > By the time the epidemic was over, the view that the fetus was a person with rights superseding the mother’s had gained considerable traction in practice. So please, tell me more about this 'novel view' that didn't exist before, and how it was created directly and specifically as a result of incorrect negative imagery used in the so-called war on drugs. Yeah.. no. Someone is mad that their particular viewpoint w/r/t pregnancy is not as popular as it once was, and is digging up all the self-referential straw men needed to define it in order to 'prove' that they are still there.

watwut 8y ago
Paternalism does not imply male, it means person in authority restricting freedom.
deogeo 8y ago
Regarding c), it's called 'paternalism' because pro-life attitudes, the source of this legislation, have greater support among men than women: http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/ http://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortio... ...whoops, no, sorry, that data shows 36% of women and 37% of men are pro-life, practically the same. But maybe we could blame blacks and hispanics? Criminalizing abortion has 35% support among whites, 38% among blacks, and 44% among hispanics.
- detaro 8y ago
  The definition of "paternalism" does not mention gender (see e.g. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paternalism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paternalism), so the straw man you built doesn't apply
  - deogeo 8y ago
    'Paternalism' is associated with men - it contains the latin word for 'father', and means ".. the manner of a father dealing benevolently and often intrusively with his children" according to https://www.dictionary.com/browse/paternalism https://www.dictionary.com/browse/paternalism And in this article, it was deliberately chosen for its association with men - it's clearly the wrong word, even without its connotations of gender. Only laws that are meant to prevent you from harming yourself are paternalistic, not from harming others. E.g. banning high-sugar foods, driving without seat-belts, etc. You wouldn't call laws against assault, murder, or theft 'paternalistic', would you?
suffrage 8y ago
Women didn’t have the right to vote in the United States, until 1920. So, patriarchy stems from that fact. Other countries have different years, before voting was extended to women, and sometimes the pretext wasn’t unconditional, requiring land ownership or other qualifiers. Meanwhile, “paternal” in the context of politics is an expression for degree of intervention or invasiveness of government overreach, and is less referential to male or female qualities directly. The term often reflects a strict fatherland, and less a nurturing motherland, again with the qualities as abstractions. A paternalistic government is less tyrranical, but more insistent on the adoption of customs, even if those customs aren’t sexist or chauvanistic. Paternalism differs from “patriarchy” in that a patriarchy directly refers to the identity of the constituents of the regime in control, while paternalism only hints that the regime in question has imposed unpopular policies “for your own good” like eating your vegetables, but not to the extent of totalitarian brainwashing. Maternalism woulf be more akin to providing benefits and preventative maintenance of citizenry. Usually the prlance for maternalism often gets branded as socialism to cast a negative light.

zozbot123 8y ago

I don't know about "crack babies" specifically, but FAS is no joke. It's not exactly unheard of for drugs used in pregnancy to have very severe effects on the developing baby.