4 ms·

Is there any data about the better economics of 5G and 4/4.5G? And further more - with people generally not needing more data, and not willing to pay more, why

by petra 8y ago

Is there any data about the better economics of 5G and 4/4.5G? And further more - with people generally not needing more data, and not willing to pay more, why would wireless carriers bother ?

rmoriz 8y ago
In Germany carriers heavily lobby to get a taxpayer funded development. Even some media outlets like „Der Spiegel“ fell for it (the most popular German website that does not support https by default...) Just recently some journalist cover the biological aspects of 5+ GHz radio on humans which assume that there are true risks compared to the sub 2 Gigahertz bands.
- jkdll 8y ago
  > Just recently some journalist cover the biological aspects of 5+ GHz radio on humans which assume that there are true risks compared to the sub 2 Gigahertz bands. Can you elaborate on this?
  - rmoriz 8y ago
    I can't. Here's the link to the publication in German https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/elektrosmog-europa-ignoriert-moegliches-krebsrisiko-von-5g/23855700.html https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/elektrosmog-europa-... and https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/mobilfunk-wie-gesundheitsschaedlich-ist-5g-wirklich/23852384.html https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/mobilfunk-wie-gesun... Tagesspiegel is usually a good newspaper but this reasoning is are very light in facts. They should stick with uncovering lobbyism.
ksec 8y ago
>with people generally not needing more data I don't see that anywhere. All the data has shown average Data usage per user is still increasing YoY. And as new younger population comes to age, replacing older generation which are less tech savy, Data usage will only continue to grow for the foreseeable future. We certainly do not want to pay more, but I have never heard anyone who does't want more data, assuming they are not on unlimited plan.
- rmoriz 8y ago
  So who will pay for it? The customers won’t directly pay more. In Germany lobbying towards subsidies is underway. I assume either that will be successful or we just have to wait until UTMS investments paid off...
  - ksec 8y ago
    The users will paid for it, without noticing. Carriers don't paid the billions in one go and hoping to recoup their investment. It hasn't been working like this for long. Your Carriers basically sign agreement to rent lot of things. Rent for Datacenter, Rent For Fibre if they are not an ISP themselves ( Which is very rare now ), Rent for Outbound Network Connection, Rent for all the Cellular site ( That is why property pricing has an effect on Mobile Pricing ), Rent for the Retails Shops, Rent for Spectrum, Rent for the Services Agreement with Infrastructure provider, which today is either Huawei, Ericsson or Nokia. Along with their own staff. As you see they are all pretty much a fix cost to achieve a services level requirement by law. You have been paying for the Services agreement to Infrastructure, and as long as you continue to paid, under the accepted condition Huawei, Ericsson and Nokia will continue the hardware and software investment as well as Network tuning. So if you are paying $100 per month, and $30 had been going to Nokia / Huawei / Ericsson, as long as you paid the same, there will be money for future upgrade. And one of the reason why you see many countries has Carriers consolidated to three, becasue the nature of carriers business requires certain minimum amount of revenue to be sustainable. Note: Of coz this is an over simplified description. But it basically shows you don't need to paid a lot more to get 5G.
    - petra 8y ago
      If the hardware companies already get their rent, what incentivized them to invest so much in 5G r&d ?
      - ksec 8y ago
        Because if they don't have something new, the rental will drop. And Carriers are always asking for more capacity, there are also lots of improvement for the backend which makes ( or suppose to ) things cheaper and easier to manage, most of them normal users don't get to see.

by petra 8y ago

Is there any data about the better economics of 5G and 4/4.5G? And further more - with people generally not needing more data, and not willing to pay more, why would wireless carriers bother ?

rmoriz 8y ago

In Germany carriers heavily lobby to get a taxpayer funded development. Even some media outlets like „Der Spiegel“ fell for it (the most popular German website that does not support https by default...) Just recently some journalist cover the biological aspects of 5+ GHz radio on humans which assume that there are true risks compared to the sub 2 Gigahertz bands.

jkdll 8y ago
> Just recently some journalist cover the biological aspects of 5+ GHz radio on humans which assume that there are true risks compared to the sub 2 Gigahertz bands. Can you elaborate on this?
- rmoriz 8y ago
  I can't. Here's the link to the publication in German https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/elektrosmog-europa-ignoriert-moegliches-krebsrisiko-von-5g/23855700.html https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/elektrosmog-europa-... and https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/mobilfunk-wie-gesundheitsschaedlich-ist-5g-wirklich/23852384.html https://www.tagesspiegel.de/gesellschaft/mobilfunk-wie-gesun... Tagesspiegel is usually a good newspaper but this reasoning is are very light in facts. They should stick with uncovering lobbyism.

ksec 8y ago

>with people generally not needing more data I don't see that anywhere. All the data has shown average Data usage per user is still increasing YoY. And as new younger population comes to age, replacing older generation which are less tech savy, Data usage will only continue to grow for the foreseeable future. We certainly do not want to pay more, but I have never heard anyone who does't want more data, assuming they are not on unlimited plan.

rmoriz 8y ago
So who will pay for it? The customers won’t directly pay more. In Germany lobbying towards subsidies is underway. I assume either that will be successful or we just have to wait until UTMS investments paid off...
- ksec 8y ago
  The users will paid for it, without noticing. Carriers don't paid the billions in one go and hoping to recoup their investment. It hasn't been working like this for long. Your Carriers basically sign agreement to rent lot of things. Rent for Datacenter, Rent For Fibre if they are not an ISP themselves ( Which is very rare now ), Rent for Outbound Network Connection, Rent for all the Cellular site ( That is why property pricing has an effect on Mobile Pricing ), Rent for the Retails Shops, Rent for Spectrum, Rent for the Services Agreement with Infrastructure provider, which today is either Huawei, Ericsson or Nokia. Along with their own staff. As you see they are all pretty much a fix cost to achieve a services level requirement by law. You have been paying for the Services agreement to Infrastructure, and as long as you continue to paid, under the accepted condition Huawei, Ericsson and Nokia will continue the hardware and software investment as well as Network tuning. So if you are paying $100 per month, and $30 had been going to Nokia / Huawei / Ericsson, as long as you paid the same, there will be money for future upgrade. And one of the reason why you see many countries has Carriers consolidated to three, becasue the nature of carriers business requires certain minimum amount of revenue to be sustainable. Note: Of coz this is an over simplified description. But it basically shows you don't need to paid a lot more to get 5G.
  - petra 8y ago
    If the hardware companies already get their rent, what incentivized them to invest so much in 5G r&d ?
    - ksec 8y ago
      Because if they don't have something new, the rental will drop. And Carriers are always asking for more capacity, there are also lots of improvement for the backend which makes ( or suppose to ) things cheaper and easier to manage, most of them normal users don't get to see.