8 ms·

I realize this wasn't the point of the story, and I'm so sorry this happened to anyone's dog. But please do not buy dogs from breeders when there are plenty of

by issa 8y ago

I realize this wasn't the point of the story, and I'm so sorry this happened to anyone's dog. But please do not buy dogs from breeders when there are plenty of amazing dogs waiting to be rescued at shelters.

crowbahr 8y ago
While you're correct do note that not everyone can handle or wants to go through the pain of training a shelter dog. A dog you've raised from 8 weeks old is very different than a dog someone else has already abused and abandoned. Even if they're only 6 months old the habits have been learned and they're hard to break. Young puppies go instantly from shelters for that reason, and few people want to adopt a pit bull with behavior problems.
- eropple 8y ago
  Yup. Both our dogs are shelter dogs and we love 'em, but in the newest dog's case--he's probably around three, we've had him for about six months--there are enough issues that a lot of people wouldn't want to deal with some people just couldn't, while still being very good caretakers of better-adjusted dogs. In ours's case: he's not a barker and he's incredibly gentle, but he's both dumb as a post (not the shelter-dog problem, and also usually just hilarious) and extremely timid (that one is) to the point of frustration. Speak excitedly? He'll slowly sink to the floor and look worried. Tape a cable to the floor with gaff tape? He won't go over it[0]--probably because he'd experienced an invisible fence, we think. Move a chair to the other side of the living room? He sits in the corner and quietly freaks out for two hours. Leave after such a traumatic furniture adjustment? You might come home and he's nervous-chewed something. (Like, to this point, five pairs of my shoes. I am literally bankrolling Nike by my re-purchases of Air Force 1's. It doesn't help that now he's figured out how to open the doors that don't latch in our house--we're doomed, I tell you. Doomed.) He's a great dog. But we knew going into it that dealing with his issues would take some effort, and there definitely are people who could be enriched by having a dog (they're great!) but don't have the capacity to deal with even a relatively minor case like ours. The downside to this sort of generosity of the benefit of the doubt, of course, is that then there are people who can't hack it and who create more shelter dogs. I don't have a good solution for that, of course. But my intuition is more good is created than bad. [0] - His pathfinding is just not good. He'll go the entire way around the house to avoid walking over a scary black tape line. He'll also squeeze under tables, chairs, benches, etc. to avoid innocuous spaces or hop over the couch to avoid going around it. And this dog is a mess of Labrador, Staffordshire, and German Shepherd, with legs like a greyhound--watching him accordion on down to squeeze under a foot-high bench is hilarious.
  - X6S1x6Okd1st 8y ago
    One of our dogs is a shelter dog and the other was given up on by it's original owner, but never made it to the shelter. Both of them required training and care beyond what most people are prepared to give. I love my dogs, but if I could have avoided the training to get them to where they are now I would have. Yet if we adopt another dog it'll likely be from a shelter or rescue.
    - drewmol 8y ago
      IME having other, well trained dogs around as part of your pack helps immensly when training a new addition so hopfully this gets easier with the next. Note this can work against you as well... I still remember the look of "oh shit, we can do that?" on (new rescue) Halo's face when Layla eagerly leaped the 5 foot fence twice in order to retreive a frisbee that had landed in the neighbors yard!
  - cjdavis 8y ago
    > His pathfinding is just not good. He’s optimized for minimum anxiety, not time or distance. Your dog’s pathfinding is _excellent_.
    - eropple 8y ago
      Maybe minimum for him. I'm just waiting for him to try to stand up under a chair and send the whole thing flying.
- eldr 8y ago
  My partner works at a shelter and comes across this sentiment often. This is strange because a sizable portion of the dogs in their care where bought by their owners as puppies and then grew up to have physical or behavioral characteristics making them unsuitable for their owners who then bring them to the shelter. There are plenty of irresponsible shelters out there but a responsible adoption center will insist that you have interaction with the dog before you adopt. The will have done thorough behavior assessments and will do their best to make sure the dog suits your lifestyle. I would guess about 80% of the dogs at her shelter require no further training to be a pet. In the remaining cases potential adopters are given guidance before they adopt and will usually know what they're in for ahead of time.
elorm 8y ago
Just to point out, Shelters are only really active in North America and a few European countries. Everyone else simply buys from the best breeders, and that’s mostly because lots of dog lovers are looking for something particular, like temperament, costmetic appearance, purity of bloodline, health history of the entire pedigree(mainly to know what kinda health problems to expect) etc. It’s good to know people “rescue” or “adopt” dogs from shelters and their payment in exchange for dogs isn’t considered “buying” but others like to know who exactly they’re adding to their family.
- rlue 8y ago
  I have so many bones to pick with you—please don't take this adversarially, but you are broadcasting a position on an important moral question, and I think some of your ideas and beliefs deserve to be re-examined. > Shelters are only really active in North America and a few European countries. I'm not sure where you got this idea, but I live in Asia (Taiwan) and can tell you for a fact that there are plenty of active shelters here and all through this side of the globe, both volunteer- and government-operated. Further, common sense tells me that there must be shelters anywhere there's an animal control department that doesn't immediately euthanize the dogs they catch. In any case, I'd hope to change your mind about breeders even if there were no shelters in your area. > Everyone else simply buys from the best breeders This is another really peculiar claim to stand behind. If people only adopt from shelters or buy from the best breeders, what are the so-so breeders doing? What about puppy mills? They account for a lot of the dogs that wind up in shelters in Taiwan (or, more precisely, their well-meaning but capricious customers do). > It’s good to know people “rescue” or “adopt” dogs from shelters and their payment in exchange for dogs isn’t considered “buying” This is the heart of what I want to discuss, though. There's a significant distinction between adopting a shelter dog and buying from a breeder, and this distinction is where the moral question lies: Shelters are not in the business of producing more dogs. They are in the business of managing the human-induced problem of transient dog populations. Breeding is part cultural practice, part commercial endeavor. I have no criticism of the cultural practice, and I think it's wonderful that there are long lineages of majestic, purebred dogs out there. But if you truly love dogs, and I mean truly love them, not _like_ family but _as_ family, then you must concede that they are all equally deserving of a home. There is a finite supply of dog stewardship out there in the world, and it is truly dwarfed by the demand for it. Breeders manufacture more demand; shelters do not. When you say "yes" to a breeder, you aren't just saying "no" to a shelter dog. You are agreeing to raise the overall demand while keeping the supply constant. More than that, you're sponsoring it. Stray dogs are refugees in this manufactured world of ours, clamoring for asylum. There's a _lot_ more of them then there are visas to go around, and we're paying somebody to make new refugees because these ones suit our preferences better. The ones that don't make it are literally killed and thrown into a furnace. Please please please reconsider your stance on breeders. Of course, I understand. Breeder dogs are prettier. More impressionable. Easier to train. They don't come with baggage. You don't have to adopt the worst shelter dog out there; I guarantee that somewhere out there, there's a shelter dog that's right for you. It might be more work, but if you love dogs, don't you think they deserve it?
ahje 8y ago
My wife and I got a couple of rescue dogs a few years back. I hate to say it, but it is one thing we will never do again; there's simply too many mental issues with them after they've been subjected to whatever horrors they were subjected to before they were rescued.
- rlue 8y ago
  Thank you for sharing this; I just posted a pretty aggressive response to another comment advocating for shelters, but I think I need more of this perspective as well.
rmtech 8y ago
This is bad advice. Never buy shelter animals, buy a bread dog or cat. Shelter animals and their problems will cost you more money over time and cause more problems. I speak from experience. People who talk about how great shelter animals are virtue signalling.
- detaro 8y ago
  Or had a different experience than you, or have different values than you.

by issa 8y ago

crowbahr 8y ago

While you're correct do note that not everyone can handle or wants to go through the pain of training a shelter dog. A dog you've raised from 8 weeks old is very different than a dog someone else has already abused and abandoned. Even if they're only 6 months old the habits have been learned and they're hard to break. Young puppies go instantly from shelters for that reason, and few people want to adopt a pit bull with behavior problems.

eropple 8y ago
Yup. Both our dogs are shelter dogs and we love 'em, but in the newest dog's case--he's probably around three, we've had him for about six months--there are enough issues that a lot of people wouldn't want to deal with some people just couldn't, while still being very good caretakers of better-adjusted dogs. In ours's case: he's not a barker and he's incredibly gentle, but he's both dumb as a post (not the shelter-dog problem, and also usually just hilarious) and extremely timid (that one is) to the point of frustration. Speak excitedly? He'll slowly sink to the floor and look worried. Tape a cable to the floor with gaff tape? He won't go over it[0]--probably because he'd experienced an invisible fence, we think. Move a chair to the other side of the living room? He sits in the corner and quietly freaks out for two hours. Leave after such a traumatic furniture adjustment? You might come home and he's nervous-chewed something. (Like, to this point, five pairs of my shoes. I am literally bankrolling Nike by my re-purchases of Air Force 1's. It doesn't help that now he's figured out how to open the doors that don't latch in our house--we're doomed, I tell you. Doomed.) He's a great dog. But we knew going into it that dealing with his issues would take some effort, and there definitely are people who could be enriched by having a dog (they're great!) but don't have the capacity to deal with even a relatively minor case like ours. The downside to this sort of generosity of the benefit of the doubt, of course, is that then there are people who can't hack it and who create more shelter dogs. I don't have a good solution for that, of course. But my intuition is more good is created than bad. [0] - His pathfinding is just not good. He'll go the entire way around the house to avoid walking over a scary black tape line. He'll also squeeze under tables, chairs, benches, etc. to avoid innocuous spaces or hop over the couch to avoid going around it. And this dog is a mess of Labrador, Staffordshire, and German Shepherd, with legs like a greyhound--watching him accordion on down to squeeze under a foot-high bench is hilarious.
- X6S1x6Okd1st 8y ago
  One of our dogs is a shelter dog and the other was given up on by it's original owner, but never made it to the shelter. Both of them required training and care beyond what most people are prepared to give. I love my dogs, but if I could have avoided the training to get them to where they are now I would have. Yet if we adopt another dog it'll likely be from a shelter or rescue.
  - drewmol 8y ago
    IME having other, well trained dogs around as part of your pack helps immensly when training a new addition so hopfully this gets easier with the next. Note this can work against you as well... I still remember the look of "oh shit, we can do that?" on (new rescue) Halo's face when Layla eagerly leaped the 5 foot fence twice in order to retreive a frisbee that had landed in the neighbors yard!
- cjdavis 8y ago
  > His pathfinding is just not good. He’s optimized for minimum anxiety, not time or distance. Your dog’s pathfinding is _excellent_.
  - eropple 8y ago
    Maybe minimum for him. I'm just waiting for him to try to stand up under a chair and send the whole thing flying.
eldr 8y ago
My partner works at a shelter and comes across this sentiment often. This is strange because a sizable portion of the dogs in their care where bought by their owners as puppies and then grew up to have physical or behavioral characteristics making them unsuitable for their owners who then bring them to the shelter. There are plenty of irresponsible shelters out there but a responsible adoption center will insist that you have interaction with the dog before you adopt. The will have done thorough behavior assessments and will do their best to make sure the dog suits your lifestyle. I would guess about 80% of the dogs at her shelter require no further training to be a pet. In the remaining cases potential adopters are given guidance before they adopt and will usually know what they're in for ahead of time.

elorm 8y ago

Just to point out, Shelters are only really active in North America and a few European countries. Everyone else simply buys from the best breeders, and that’s mostly because lots of dog lovers are looking for something particular, like temperament, costmetic appearance, purity of bloodline, health history of the entire pedigree(mainly to know what kinda health problems to expect) etc. It’s good to know people “rescue” or “adopt” dogs from shelters and their payment in exchange for dogs isn’t considered “buying” but others like to know who exactly they’re adding to their family.

rlue 8y ago
I have so many bones to pick with you—please don't take this adversarially, but you are broadcasting a position on an important moral question, and I think some of your ideas and beliefs deserve to be re-examined. > Shelters are only really active in North America and a few European countries. I'm not sure where you got this idea, but I live in Asia (Taiwan) and can tell you for a fact that there are plenty of active shelters here and all through this side of the globe, both volunteer- and government-operated. Further, common sense tells me that there must be shelters anywhere there's an animal control department that doesn't immediately euthanize the dogs they catch. In any case, I'd hope to change your mind about breeders even if there were no shelters in your area. > Everyone else simply buys from the best breeders This is another really peculiar claim to stand behind. If people only adopt from shelters or buy from the best breeders, what are the so-so breeders doing? What about puppy mills? They account for a lot of the dogs that wind up in shelters in Taiwan (or, more precisely, their well-meaning but capricious customers do). > It’s good to know people “rescue” or “adopt” dogs from shelters and their payment in exchange for dogs isn’t considered “buying” This is the heart of what I want to discuss, though. There's a significant distinction between adopting a shelter dog and buying from a breeder, and this distinction is where the moral question lies: Shelters are not in the business of producing more dogs. They are in the business of managing the human-induced problem of transient dog populations. Breeding is part cultural practice, part commercial endeavor. I have no criticism of the cultural practice, and I think it's wonderful that there are long lineages of majestic, purebred dogs out there. But if you truly love dogs, and I mean truly love them, not _like_ family but _as_ family, then you must concede that they are all equally deserving of a home. There is a finite supply of dog stewardship out there in the world, and it is truly dwarfed by the demand for it. Breeders manufacture more demand; shelters do not. When you say "yes" to a breeder, you aren't just saying "no" to a shelter dog. You are agreeing to raise the overall demand while keeping the supply constant. More than that, you're sponsoring it. Stray dogs are refugees in this manufactured world of ours, clamoring for asylum. There's a _lot_ more of them then there are visas to go around, and we're paying somebody to make new refugees because these ones suit our preferences better. The ones that don't make it are literally killed and thrown into a furnace. Please please please reconsider your stance on breeders. Of course, I understand. Breeder dogs are prettier. More impressionable. Easier to train. They don't come with baggage. You don't have to adopt the worst shelter dog out there; I guarantee that somewhere out there, there's a shelter dog that's right for you. It might be more work, but if you love dogs, don't you think they deserve it?

ahje 8y ago

My wife and I got a couple of rescue dogs a few years back. I hate to say it, but it is one thing we will never do again; there's simply too many mental issues with them after they've been subjected to whatever horrors they were subjected to before they were rescued.

rlue 8y ago
Thank you for sharing this; I just posted a pretty aggressive response to another comment advocating for shelters, but I think I need more of this perspective as well.

rmtech 8y ago

This is bad advice. Never buy shelter animals, buy a bread dog or cat. Shelter animals and their problems will cost you more money over time and cause more problems. I speak from experience. People who talk about how great shelter animals are virtue signalling.

detaro 8y ago
Or had a different experience than you, or have different values than you.