7 ms·

It's really disappointing to see how much the executive branch is getting away with.

crankylinuxuser 8y ago
Ive asked before, but what do we do if a political party and the president they put in office is taking over the country? If I read the founding fathers, violence would be called for. But I don't mean me, or even a group of my buddies. This seems like, esp with the forceful quitting of Gen. Matt is, could indicate a potential coup situation in the military. And we already aren't paying a branch of the armed services: US Coast Guard. This terrifies the living hell out of me. I see no exit ramp; no amicable discussions; and the country further dissolving at the bureaucratic seams. And it seems intentional.
- pathseeker 8y ago
  What are you talking about? These people are still in office by election. The Republicans gained seats in the Senate. There is a large portion of the country that thinks the Republicans are fine and that Democrats are the problem.
  - komali2 8y ago
    Last check, 56% blame Trump, 36% blame Democrats. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-14/trump-took-responsibility-for-shutdown-and-voters-give-it-to-him https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-14/trump-too...
    - notafish 8y ago
      Given the midterm senate votes (59.3% D, 39.1% R), that can be easily squares with most Democrats blame Trump and most Republicans blame Democrats. Which brings things back to the substantial advantage that the more rural states give the Republicans in the senate, which would have a good shot and ending the shutdown if they wanted to.
- komali2 8y ago
  If, in 2 years, heinous shit is done by the Republican party to prevent the Democrats from turning this whole clock back 4 years, then yea, it may be time to turn to drastic measures. Until then, we can expect the system to work - significant damage will be done by the Republican party for 4-8 years, and, as is tradition, the Democrats will spend 8 years fixing it.
slg 8y ago
A surprising amount of the American political system was built around our natural human desire to avoid being shamed. Once you have a political figure who is shameless all the rules chance.
- golemotron 8y ago
  I'm a centrist but I saw as early as 2015 that shame was being overused. Shamelessness should be an expected escalation.
- netsharc 8y ago
  A figure? Seems to me many in Washington were shameless before Trump, when they can lie to people about death panels so they can deny them healthcare, or "we need to tax the rich less!", etc. Or announcing support for a policy and denouncing it after taking lobbyist money...
  - solveit 8y ago
    There's everyday politicking, and then there's Trump.
asdff 8y ago
This is what happens when all the checks and balances are 'on the same side.' The Republican party is an ideology that demands lockstep participation, every candidate from your county treasurer to the POTUS spouts the exact same half dozen talking points while actual policy positions are deliberately obfuscated. The only time Lindsay Graham and other big GOP names split from the madness of the party is when the optics leave them with no other choice, and they will say the bare minimum. See the half measures given to 'penalize' Rep. King.
- pathseeker 8y ago
  > spouts the exact same half dozen talking points while actual policy positions are deliberately obfuscated. This is exactly what happens with both parties. It's a byproduct of the party system. Republicans: small government, better business environment, etc Democrats: strong social safety net, everyone pays their fair share, etc
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    I think it's interesting to think about this in the context of term limits. Athenian offices were strictly term-limited, except for the position of general. People apparently felt that having military experience in that role was more valuable than the benefit of term limits would make up for, and it's hard to blame them for that. But the general, able to serve for life, the only island of stability in the government, accumulated all the political power. This mostly defeated the purpose of having term limits on any office. American presidents are term-limited, but American political parties aren't, and policy -- in terms of the solutions, but also in terms of the questions that get asked -- is set by the parties. I think this is more than just a coincidence. On the other hand, Senators and Congressmen are not term-limited, but they don't seem to accumulate much in the way of political power.
    - Armisael16 8y ago
      A big part of the problem is that congresspeople can’t hire and retain good staffers long-term - the pay isn’t good enough and cost of living in DC has gone up drastically. This hamstrings Congress - they can’t really develop their own solutions and are forces to rely on outside sources for legislation. On a related note, did you know that more money is spent by businesses on lobbying than the federal government spends on all of Congress? (Also, senators are congresspeople.)
pathseeker 8y ago
It's not though. Vetos can easily be overridden by the legislative branch so this is coordination between executive and the Republicans of the legislation. "Trump is doing this and is unstoppable" is a false narrative and is the reason that "Trump is compromised by Russia" is a senseless explanation.
- jquery 8y ago
  I'm not sure why you're being downvoted for stating facts and reasonable opinions. I've been on Hacker News long enough I'm allowed to call out increasing the Reddit influence (which is why I visit less and less). It's getting worse. It appears Hacker News is no longer an adult forum to discuss controversial things in a sober manner. The guardrails Paul Graham put in place are beginning to break as Hacker News ages and the immigrants are able to use the downvote button.
  - fzeroracer 8y ago
    Fearmongering like this does not for a reasonable argument make. Especially when you're invoking language like calling people you don't like 'immigrants'.
    - sattoshi 8y ago
      Why do you seem to imply that "immigrants" is derogatory? I'm an immigrant. I'm not proud of being an immigrant but nor am I ashamed of it, it's just a characteristic. Redditors moving to hackernews can be called immigrants as they behave much in the same way. They have their own culture and background which they bring with them. Of course, they may assimilate but it doesn't seem to be working too good lately. I personally have wound up on hackernews maybe 5 years ago, but I have definitely seen a decline in discourse over the last three years or so specifically. I generally don't interact much as I often feel like there are people far more knowledgeable on a particular topic than myself and my comments would be little more than noise. You seem to have taken a similar path with most comments being on political topics, with echoes of champagne socialism. Fundamentally, I came here for the technology. I understand that discussions of politics are inevitable on this post in particular, yet I dread the day when the comments will be reduced to "orange man bad" as is the case on Reddit. Perhaps, I am just afraid of progress.
benatkin 8y ago
I'm also disappointed by progressives who don't acknowledge the role of the legislative branch in all of this, starting with Paul Ryan endorsing Trump back in June 2016.
rattlesnakedave 8y ago
Agreed, the fact that they have sprawled out to include all of these unchecked executive agencies with non-essential bureaucrats on payroll deciding the day-to-day of American life without any checks is appalling.
- wwweston 8y ago
  Without any checks or oversight at all! Shameful! Well, OK... there's obviously one little check. Like, the staff of these organizations are literally not getting paid right now because of a funding impasse. So, obviously there's some regular oversight about who gets what kind of funding. And come to think of it, all these organizations and jobs were created by act of congress and/or executive prerogative, with scope prescribed by the relevant orders and law. But who are congress and the executive accountable to anyway? And who writes these so called "laws"? Who are the laws accountable to? Wait. They're written by members of congress? And carried out by the executive? Huh. OK, but other than that, totally unchecked! Again, who are "congress" and the so-called "president" accountable to? Who made them "officials"? Oh, yeah. Voters. So actually, there isn't any defensible sense in which one can say "unchecked" at all, actually. Now that we're here, it's almost as if the only way one could use the term "unchecked" is if they're not using language in an attempt to actually describe the world, but out of intent to characterize inaccurately without a supporting argument. Propagandize. Or, I suppose, if one had already had one's mind hijacked by such propaganda. But who would suspect that someone named "rattlesnakedave" might actually be engaging in that sort of commentary?

Ive asked before, but what do we do if a political party and the president they put in office is taking over the country? If I read the founding fathers, violence would be called for. But I don't mean me, or even a group of my buddies. This seems like, esp with the forceful quitting of Gen. Matt is, could indicate a potential coup situation in the military. And we already aren't paying a branch of the armed services: US Coast Guard. This terrifies the living hell out of me. I see no exit ramp; no amicable discussions; and the country further dissolving at the bureaucratic seams. And it seems intentional.

pathseeker 8y ago
What are you talking about? These people are still in office by election. The Republicans gained seats in the Senate. There is a large portion of the country that thinks the Republicans are fine and that Democrats are the problem.
- komali2 8y ago
  Last check, 56% blame Trump, 36% blame Democrats. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-14/trump-took-responsibility-for-shutdown-and-voters-give-it-to-him https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-14/trump-too...
  - notafish 8y ago
    Given the midterm senate votes (59.3% D, 39.1% R), that can be easily squares with most Democrats blame Trump and most Republicans blame Democrats. Which brings things back to the substantial advantage that the more rural states give the Republicans in the senate, which would have a good shot and ending the shutdown if they wanted to.
komali2 8y ago
If, in 2 years, heinous shit is done by the Republican party to prevent the Democrats from turning this whole clock back 4 years, then yea, it may be time to turn to drastic measures. Until then, we can expect the system to work - significant damage will be done by the Republican party for 4-8 years, and, as is tradition, the Democrats will spend 8 years fixing it.

slg 8y ago

A surprising amount of the American political system was built around our natural human desire to avoid being shamed. Once you have a political figure who is shameless all the rules chance.

golemotron 8y ago
I'm a centrist but I saw as early as 2015 that shame was being overused. Shamelessness should be an expected escalation.
netsharc 8y ago
A figure? Seems to me many in Washington were shameless before Trump, when they can lie to people about death panels so they can deny them healthcare, or "we need to tax the rich less!", etc. Or announcing support for a policy and denouncing it after taking lobbyist money...
- solveit 8y ago
  There's everyday politicking, and then there's Trump.

asdff 8y ago

This is what happens when all the checks and balances are 'on the same side.' The Republican party is an ideology that demands lockstep participation, every candidate from your county treasurer to the POTUS spouts the exact same half dozen talking points while actual policy positions are deliberately obfuscated. The only time Lindsay Graham and other big GOP names split from the madness of the party is when the optics leave them with no other choice, and they will say the bare minimum. See the half measures given to 'penalize' Rep. King.

pathseeker 8y ago
> spouts the exact same half dozen talking points while actual policy positions are deliberately obfuscated. This is exactly what happens with both parties. It's a byproduct of the party system. Republicans: small government, better business environment, etc Democrats: strong social safety net, everyone pays their fair share, etc
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  I think it's interesting to think about this in the context of term limits. Athenian offices were strictly term-limited, except for the position of general. People apparently felt that having military experience in that role was more valuable than the benefit of term limits would make up for, and it's hard to blame them for that. But the general, able to serve for life, the only island of stability in the government, accumulated all the political power. This mostly defeated the purpose of having term limits on any office. American presidents are term-limited, but American political parties aren't, and policy -- in terms of the solutions, but also in terms of the questions that get asked -- is set by the parties. I think this is more than just a coincidence. On the other hand, Senators and Congressmen are not term-limited, but they don't seem to accumulate much in the way of political power.
  - Armisael16 8y ago
    A big part of the problem is that congresspeople can’t hire and retain good staffers long-term - the pay isn’t good enough and cost of living in DC has gone up drastically. This hamstrings Congress - they can’t really develop their own solutions and are forces to rely on outside sources for legislation. On a related note, did you know that more money is spent by businesses on lobbying than the federal government spends on all of Congress? (Also, senators are congresspeople.)

pathseeker 8y ago

It's not though. Vetos can easily be overridden by the legislative branch so this is coordination between executive and the Republicans of the legislation. "Trump is doing this and is unstoppable" is a false narrative and is the reason that "Trump is compromised by Russia" is a senseless explanation.

jquery 8y ago
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted for stating facts and reasonable opinions. I've been on Hacker News long enough I'm allowed to call out increasing the Reddit influence (which is why I visit less and less). It's getting worse. It appears Hacker News is no longer an adult forum to discuss controversial things in a sober manner. The guardrails Paul Graham put in place are beginning to break as Hacker News ages and the immigrants are able to use the downvote button.
- fzeroracer 8y ago
  Fearmongering like this does not for a reasonable argument make. Especially when you're invoking language like calling people you don't like 'immigrants'.
  - sattoshi 8y ago
    Why do you seem to imply that "immigrants" is derogatory? I'm an immigrant. I'm not proud of being an immigrant but nor am I ashamed of it, it's just a characteristic. Redditors moving to hackernews can be called immigrants as they behave much in the same way. They have their own culture and background which they bring with them. Of course, they may assimilate but it doesn't seem to be working too good lately. I personally have wound up on hackernews maybe 5 years ago, but I have definitely seen a decline in discourse over the last three years or so specifically. I generally don't interact much as I often feel like there are people far more knowledgeable on a particular topic than myself and my comments would be little more than noise. You seem to have taken a similar path with most comments being on political topics, with echoes of champagne socialism. Fundamentally, I came here for the technology. I understand that discussions of politics are inevitable on this post in particular, yet I dread the day when the comments will be reduced to "orange man bad" as is the case on Reddit. Perhaps, I am just afraid of progress.

benatkin 8y ago

I'm also disappointed by progressives who don't acknowledge the role of the legislative branch in all of this, starting with Paul Ryan endorsing Trump back in June 2016.

rattlesnakedave 8y ago

Agreed, the fact that they have sprawled out to include all of these unchecked executive agencies with non-essential bureaucrats on payroll deciding the day-to-day of American life without any checks is appalling.

wwweston 8y ago
Without any checks or oversight at all! Shameful! Well, OK... there's obviously one little check. Like, the staff of these organizations are literally not getting paid right now because of a funding impasse. So, obviously there's some regular oversight about who gets what kind of funding. And come to think of it, all these organizations and jobs were created by act of congress and/or executive prerogative, with scope prescribed by the relevant orders and law. But who are congress and the executive accountable to anyway? And who writes these so called "laws"? Who are the laws accountable to? Wait. They're written by members of congress? And carried out by the executive? Huh. OK, but other than that, totally unchecked! Again, who are "congress" and the so-called "president" accountable to? Who made them "officials"? Oh, yeah. Voters. So actually, there isn't any defensible sense in which one can say "unchecked" at all, actually. Now that we're here, it's almost as if the only way one could use the term "unchecked" is if they're not using language in an attempt to actually describe the world, but out of intent to characterize inaccurately without a supporting argument. Propagandize. Or, I suppose, if one had already had one's mind hijacked by such propaganda. But who would suspect that someone named "rattlesnakedave" might actually be engaging in that sort of commentary?