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Disclosure: im a full-time diesel engine mechanic. my shop was due for a round of vessel inspections for our waste and fresh oil holding tanks last friday, but

Disclosure: im a full-time diesel engine mechanic. my shop was due for a round of vessel inspections for our waste and fresh oil holding tanks last friday, but, no EPA. Without these inspections we can not technically order new oil or have oil recycled, because the EPA signoff is required as part of cradle-to-grave handling of hazmat substances. so how do we get around it? we now have half our back parking lot filled with 55 gallon drums of waste byproduct from engine work, which can be shipped without an EPA cert to recyclers. This is also outright illegal if it gets big enough, but we've been declaring it as required by the EPA. since we cant schedule a formal review of that either, we confirm the storage with their hotline for doing so, and since thats not staffed and the voicemail box is full, I have been mailing Kodak pictures and printed descriptions of the storage. our full-site inspection is due feb 2nd...without it, the federal government (if it were running) would cite us for a flagrant violation and shut us down. The guy who does that inspection called us and confirmed hes quitting to work for...of all places...the company that recycles our oil.

el_benhameen 8y ago
Every time I read one of your comments I think “is that the same diesel guy?”, and so it is. You always have some of the most interesting things to say here.
- veb 8y ago
  He has a tag 'diesel mechanic' on Momento: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/momento-for-hacker-news/ldamdlljpkkejoiohakbapncdjfolgfh https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/momento-for-hacker... - it's actually pretty handy! :)
  - rexpop 8y ago
    Since I just got Momento, all I want is to import your tags.
  - jaytaylor 8y ago
    I second that- wish tags could be shared with or imported from the memento community.
    - pathseeker 8y ago
      That's a great way to encourage brigading.
  - ed312 8y ago
    Is there some sort of widely accepted "hacker news +" addon like RES for reddit? If not I think I just found the project I want to start :)
  - _verandaguy 8y ago
    Is there a version of this plugin for Firefox?
dagoat 8y ago
Just to clarify, are you saying you're able to recycle your oil without inspection and also wont't have to undergo a full site inspection (if the gov remains shutdown)?
- nimbius 8y ago
  sealed vessels under a certain capacity can be recycled normally by most companies. we dont often do it because its cumbersome, and larger holding tanks are safer than random barrels that get forgotten and dont have leak alarms or overflow alarms. large tanks require certification, samples, and periodic checks to make sure we arent secretly filling them full of nacho cheese or something and not waste oil. that having been said, we will still require an EPA site inspection, and im pretty sure when that happens theyll be rather accommodating to any lapses in certification. Id dread having to check that voicemail box though.
  - X-Istence 8y ago
    If I worked for the EPA and found you had filled your large tank with nacho cheese I'd be impressed!
    - bdamm 8y ago
      First you'd have to prove that it was, in fact, the nacho cheese that it was claimed to be. I am betting lots of companies would be happy to toss random chemical solvents without any environmental oversight into whatever tanks they thought could hold it. Witness the Silicon Valley superfund disaster, for one.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    periodic checks to make sure we arent secretly filling them full of nacho cheese or something and not waste oil I'm not sure there's a test sensitive enough to make this distinction. ;)
odorousrex 8y ago
>our full-site inspection is due feb 2nd...without it, the federal government (if it were running) would cite us for a flagrant violation and shut us down. The guy who does that inspection called us and confirmed hes quitting to work for...of all places...the company that recycles our oil. What will you do when this date comes around? I'm going to assume you just can't shut down and lose business? Do you just keep at it and take the hit in fines/whatnot when the govt. reopens? To think similar things are happening at mechanic shops all over the country... it's a bit horrifying honestly. Diesel is nasty stuff.
ageitgey 8y ago
There's lots of weird legal impacts of the shutdown. Some are big issues, like your situation with hazardous materials and trying to comply with the law. Others are tiny things that impact everyday people in weird ways. My particular issue is that I'm trying to arrange to transport my dog across country lines on an airplane. But the county I'm flying to requires my vet to complete a vaccination certificate which then has to be stamped by the USDA APHIS office (normally no big deal). But of course this is currently impossible because USDA APHIS is shut down and doesn't even answer their phones. It's not clear if any alternate path exists to get around this.
- Kalium 8y ago
  Oh! I have a relevant and potentially helpful life experience. Twice in my life I have needed to get a cat from Point A in central time to Point B somewhere in California. Handling all the vaccinations and associated paperwork was (in one case) annoying or (in the other) the person who actually owned the cat not remotely organized enough to have records. It turns out some domestic airlines will permit you to fly with a pet on-board in a soft-side case under the seat where one might normally put a bag. This may or may not work for you, depending on how patient and large your dog is and how big your budget is.
  - techsupporter 8y ago
    > It turns out some domestic airlines will permit you to fly with a pet on-board in a soft-side case under the seat where one might normally put a bag. This may or may not work for you, depending on how patient and large your dog is and how big your budget is. The person to whom you replied is trying to import an animal into a foreign country. Doing that, even for pet-in-cabin and service animals, requires a certificate from the USDA. The same process as domestic flights won't work in this circumstance, unfortunately.
    - Kalium 8y ago
      Oh! I missed the country lines portion. That's quite unfortunate for them.
elliekelly 8y ago
If you can demonstrate that you’ve substantively complied with the regulations to the best of your ability given the circumstances (and it sounds like you can) I would imagine most regulators and/or administrative judges have better things to do than try to ding you for this. Quick edit: Might want to make sure you’ve got something between the storage containers and the ground though so there won’t be any leeching into the soil. Source: I’m a regulatory compliance attorney. Mostly investment management but I moonlight as a legal journalist covering EPA enforcement cases.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  I would imagine most regulators and/or administrative judges have better things to do than try to ding you for this. In my experience running businesses in several states, regulators are surprisingly helpful. They don't want to punish you unless you're being a deliberate jerk. They want to help you learn to comply with the law first. They'll only go for the throat if you tell them to pound sand.
jcoby 8y ago
Interesting. I make a part that a large diesel manufacturer uses on fixed and marine diesels to clean the crankcase air and meet EPA regs. I noticed a big uptick in purchasing right around the shutdown and then it fell off a cliff. I chalked it up to holidays but now I wonder if everyone is deferring maintenance since they can't do anything with the waste.
slg 8y ago
>The guy who does that inspection called us and confirmed hes quitting to work for...of all places...the company that recycles our oil. This type of thing is one part of the story that not enough people are focusing on regarding the shutdown. How many people are going to come back to these jobs once the shutdown inevitably does end? Odds are these "nonessential" government departments will be crippled for years by the loss of both experience and manpower.
- bargl 8y ago
  This. I have been on the non-essential side, so I know some people who are moving on. It's all anecdotal, but I'd be curious to see what the cost of this shutdown is going to be.
- wwweston 8y ago
  One of the things that needs to be understood is that this is intentional. The Grover Norquist "drown it in a bathtub" contingent of the Republican party is large, influential, and for them, this is not at all unfortunate collateral damage in pursuit of The Wall or something. The crippling of public institutions (if not outright dissolution) is part and parcel with the ideology. And that's even if you don't believe that the executive branch may have been compromised by a foreign power interested in weakening and destabilizing the United States.
  - perfmode 8y ago
    It's really disappointing to see how much the executive branch is getting away with.
    - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
      Ive asked before, but what do we do if a political party and the president they put in office is taking over the country? If I read the founding fathers, violence would be called for. But I don't mean me, or even a group of my buddies. This seems like, esp with the forceful quitting of Gen. Matt is, could indicate a potential coup situation in the military. And we already aren't paying a branch of the armed services: US Coast Guard. This terrifies the living hell out of me. I see no exit ramp; no amicable discussions; and the country further dissolving at the bureaucratic seams. And it seems intentional.
towndrunk 8y ago
Off topic: I would like to chat about the diesel mechanic business. Any way to contact you?
listenallyall 8y ago
I would be interested in hearing your (and owner, coworkers, etc) honest opinion of the EPA regs prior to this shutdown. My understanding (and I very well could be wrong) is that many of the EPA's rules are overly burdensome, expensive, and unnecessary while there are other areas that go without oversight that could use it. Certainly it is frustrating to be blocked from conducting business because you are unable to follow the regulations. But if the regulations are misguided to begin with, perhaps there is some merit in exposing that life and business can continue with reduced bureaucracy.

el_benhameen 8y ago

Every time I read one of your comments I think “is that the same diesel guy?”, and so it is. You always have some of the most interesting things to say here.

veb 8y ago
He has a tag 'diesel mechanic' on Momento: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/momento-for-hacker-news/ldamdlljpkkejoiohakbapncdjfolgfh https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/momento-for-hacker... - it's actually pretty handy! :)
- rexpop 8y ago
  Since I just got Momento, all I want is to import your tags.
- jaytaylor 8y ago
  I second that- wish tags could be shared with or imported from the memento community.
  - pathseeker 8y ago
    That's a great way to encourage brigading.
- ed312 8y ago
  Is there some sort of widely accepted "hacker news +" addon like RES for reddit? If not I think I just found the project I want to start :)
- _verandaguy 8y ago
  Is there a version of this plugin for Firefox?

dagoat 8y ago

Just to clarify, are you saying you're able to recycle your oil without inspection and also wont't have to undergo a full site inspection (if the gov remains shutdown)?

nimbius 8y ago
sealed vessels under a certain capacity can be recycled normally by most companies. we dont often do it because its cumbersome, and larger holding tanks are safer than random barrels that get forgotten and dont have leak alarms or overflow alarms. large tanks require certification, samples, and periodic checks to make sure we arent secretly filling them full of nacho cheese or something and not waste oil. that having been said, we will still require an EPA site inspection, and im pretty sure when that happens theyll be rather accommodating to any lapses in certification. Id dread having to check that voicemail box though.
- X-Istence 8y ago
  If I worked for the EPA and found you had filled your large tank with nacho cheese I'd be impressed!
  - bdamm 8y ago
    First you'd have to prove that it was, in fact, the nacho cheese that it was claimed to be. I am betting lots of companies would be happy to toss random chemical solvents without any environmental oversight into whatever tanks they thought could hold it. Witness the Silicon Valley superfund disaster, for one.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  periodic checks to make sure we arent secretly filling them full of nacho cheese or something and not waste oil I'm not sure there's a test sensitive enough to make this distinction. ;)

odorousrex 8y ago

>our full-site inspection is due feb 2nd...without it, the federal government (if it were running) would cite us for a flagrant violation and shut us down. The guy who does that inspection called us and confirmed hes quitting to work for...of all places...the company that recycles our oil. What will you do when this date comes around? I'm going to assume you just can't shut down and lose business? Do you just keep at it and take the hit in fines/whatnot when the govt. reopens? To think similar things are happening at mechanic shops all over the country... it's a bit horrifying honestly. Diesel is nasty stuff.

ageitgey 8y ago

There's lots of weird legal impacts of the shutdown. Some are big issues, like your situation with hazardous materials and trying to comply with the law. Others are tiny things that impact everyday people in weird ways. My particular issue is that I'm trying to arrange to transport my dog across country lines on an airplane. But the county I'm flying to requires my vet to complete a vaccination certificate which then has to be stamped by the USDA APHIS office (normally no big deal). But of course this is currently impossible because USDA APHIS is shut down and doesn't even answer their phones. It's not clear if any alternate path exists to get around this.

Kalium 8y ago
Oh! I have a relevant and potentially helpful life experience. Twice in my life I have needed to get a cat from Point A in central time to Point B somewhere in California. Handling all the vaccinations and associated paperwork was (in one case) annoying or (in the other) the person who actually owned the cat not remotely organized enough to have records. It turns out some domestic airlines will permit you to fly with a pet on-board in a soft-side case under the seat where one might normally put a bag. This may or may not work for you, depending on how patient and large your dog is and how big your budget is.
- techsupporter 8y ago
  > It turns out some domestic airlines will permit you to fly with a pet on-board in a soft-side case under the seat where one might normally put a bag. This may or may not work for you, depending on how patient and large your dog is and how big your budget is. The person to whom you replied is trying to import an animal into a foreign country. Doing that, even for pet-in-cabin and service animals, requires a certificate from the USDA. The same process as domestic flights won't work in this circumstance, unfortunately.
  - Kalium 8y ago
    Oh! I missed the country lines portion. That's quite unfortunate for them.

elliekelly 8y ago

If you can demonstrate that you’ve substantively complied with the regulations to the best of your ability given the circumstances (and it sounds like you can) I would imagine most regulators and/or administrative judges have better things to do than try to ding you for this. Quick edit: Might want to make sure you’ve got something between the storage containers and the ground though so there won’t be any leeching into the soil. Source: I’m a regulatory compliance attorney. Mostly investment management but I moonlight as a legal journalist covering EPA enforcement cases.

reaperducer 8y ago
I would imagine most regulators and/or administrative judges have better things to do than try to ding you for this. In my experience running businesses in several states, regulators are surprisingly helpful. They don't want to punish you unless you're being a deliberate jerk. They want to help you learn to comply with the law first. They'll only go for the throat if you tell them to pound sand.

jcoby 8y ago

Interesting. I make a part that a large diesel manufacturer uses on fixed and marine diesels to clean the crankcase air and meet EPA regs. I noticed a big uptick in purchasing right around the shutdown and then it fell off a cliff. I chalked it up to holidays but now I wonder if everyone is deferring maintenance since they can't do anything with the waste.

slg 8y ago

>The guy who does that inspection called us and confirmed hes quitting to work for...of all places...the company that recycles our oil. This type of thing is one part of the story that not enough people are focusing on regarding the shutdown. How many people are going to come back to these jobs once the shutdown inevitably does end? Odds are these "nonessential" government departments will be crippled for years by the loss of both experience and manpower.

bargl 8y ago
This. I have been on the non-essential side, so I know some people who are moving on. It's all anecdotal, but I'd be curious to see what the cost of this shutdown is going to be.
wwweston 8y ago
One of the things that needs to be understood is that this is intentional. The Grover Norquist "drown it in a bathtub" contingent of the Republican party is large, influential, and for them, this is not at all unfortunate collateral damage in pursuit of The Wall or something. The crippling of public institutions (if not outright dissolution) is part and parcel with the ideology. And that's even if you don't believe that the executive branch may have been compromised by a foreign power interested in weakening and destabilizing the United States.
- perfmode 8y ago
  It's really disappointing to see how much the executive branch is getting away with.
  - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
    Ive asked before, but what do we do if a political party and the president they put in office is taking over the country? If I read the founding fathers, violence would be called for. But I don't mean me, or even a group of my buddies. This seems like, esp with the forceful quitting of Gen. Matt is, could indicate a potential coup situation in the military. And we already aren't paying a branch of the armed services: US Coast Guard. This terrifies the living hell out of me. I see no exit ramp; no amicable discussions; and the country further dissolving at the bureaucratic seams. And it seems intentional.

towndrunk 8y ago

Off topic: I would like to chat about the diesel mechanic business. Any way to contact you?

listenallyall 8y ago

I would be interested in hearing your (and owner, coworkers, etc) honest opinion of the EPA regs prior to this shutdown. My understanding (and I very well could be wrong) is that many of the EPA's rules are overly burdensome, expensive, and unnecessary while there are other areas that go without oversight that could use it. Certainly it is frustrating to be blocked from conducting business because you are unable to follow the regulations. But if the regulations are misguided to begin with, perhaps there is some merit in exposing that life and business can continue with reduced bureaucracy.