5 ms·

Exactly. China isn't scary, an oppressive authoritarian regime controlling the world economy is.

by ng12 8y ago

stcredzero 8y ago
To what extent does the mostly single party state of California influence the world economy?
- garmaine 8y ago
  Non-sequitur?
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    Maybe for a privileged urban techie. There are people here in California who grouse about the state being an oppressive single-party state. There are certain rural and city people (both white and black) who have to behave differently and give extra thought to avoiding unwanted law enforcement scrutiny. There have been numerous articles written about how many rural California interests are under-represented. I have a friend who lives up north in the Sierras (who actually won an award for her work in social justice) who can't go to certain bars in her town, because someone might knife her over political disagreements. There is some unrest, oppression of the less powerful, and under-representation here in California. It's much better here than in many parts of the world, but it's there. Some of it is due to the lop-sided nature of politics here.
    - asveikau 8y ago
      > people here ... who grouse about the state being an oppressive single-party state. I'm pretty sure you can say that about most states. Either you have a blue state with a rural population that feels oppressed, or a red state with an urban population that feels oppressed, or pockets of people identifying with the less dominant party within both urban or rural areas. It doesn't fit neatly into 21st century American domestic political discourse (with emphasis since 2000 on red states vs. blue states), but we're really more interspersed than we believe, at varying proportions.
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        Either you have a blue state with a rural population that feels oppressed, or a red state with an urban population that feels oppressed, or pockets of people identifying with the less dominant party within both urban or rural areas. I have a sense that California is singularly skewed in this way, however. I've seen a rural lawyer in California advise people to basically hide their cultural identity while driving. It doesn't fit neatly into 21st century American domestic political discourse (with emphasis since 2000 on red states vs. blue states), but we're really more interspersed than we believe, at varying proportions. The time to worry is when you have scapegoating of certain minorities expressed in law and government behavior. The time to worry, is then the authorities have decided it's now alright to trample on the rights of a subset of its own citizens, regardless of their innocence.
        HashHishBang 8y ago
        >I've seen a rural lawyer in California advise people to basically hide their cultural identity while driving. Genuinely curious what one would do to hide or advertise their cultural identity while driving? Bumper stickers and flags?
        stcredzero 8y ago
        Bumper stickers and flags? Those were two of the things that were mentioned.
    - garmaine 8y ago
      Not my point. The parent to your post was talking about oppressive authoritarian regimes. You compared to a democratic state with free elections and the rule of law that happens to also consistently vote a certain way. These aren't even remotely the same thing.
      - garmaine 8y ago
        And not that it should matter, but I’m saying this as a republican living in California ...
- munificent 8y ago
  Today I learned that California is an oppressive authoritarian regime...
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    If you go looking, you'll find that there are some people who describe it that way, and that's been the case for many years. No large polity has had a single, unanimous evaluation from all of its citizens, ever in the history of the world.
    - nostrademons 8y ago
      But that's the case for every polity - you'll find some people who find it oppressive, and a lot of people who don't. Most people in China wouldn't actually call it an oppressive authoritarian regime, even though by U.S. standards it is. It seems to extend down to ridiculously small polities, eg. there are people in the local Peace Corps alumni association (membership ~100) that call it an oppressive authoritarian regime, and I've worked at a startup with 18 employees that some of my coworkers called an oppressive authoritarian regime.
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        They key difference (should be the key metric) is exactly how badly the dissenting minority gets treated. By that measure, California is at the "not too bad, but shows some disturbing trends" stage.
        nostrademons 8y ago
        I guess. IMHO dissenting minorities are treated pretty well in California - the Oroville dam repairs are complete (and look pretty impressive) and there's been a massive disaster response from CalFire & other local fire departments to the Redding & Paradise fires, despite those all being very red areas. And San Jose is covering the wages of TSA screeners at Mineta airport during the government shutdown, even though the TSA isn't exactly the most popular agency of Silicon Valley liberals.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > To what extent does the mostly single party state of California influence the world economy? California is not a “mostly single party state” other than in the sense that any state with a current legislative majority party is. The California Republican Party, sure, has done a horrible job keeping voters over the last decade, following the national party on its rightward march faster than voters on the state were willing to support. But they aren't systematic excluded by government in the manner of a single-party state, and while they are a weak minority in state government, much government in the state is done at the local level, and Republicans still dominate local government in substantial swathes of the state. And, unlike in a single-party state, there are no structural barriers to the state Republican Party becoming more competitive if it chooses to actually try, rather than hewing to the orthodoxy of a national party far out of line with California voters.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    The California Republican Party, sure, has done a horrible job keeping voters over the last decade, following the national party on its rightward march It's the Democrats (I was one, until recently) who have been moving left. There has been some reaction from the Republicans, but the majority of the shift has been on the left towards the left. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caQF4aCdQvE&t=817s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caQF4aCdQvE&t=817s But they aren't systematic excluded by government in the manner of a single-party state Yet. I'd seen some nutty Craiglist ads, where people refused to live with anyone who didn't support Bernie, including other Democrats. (For the record, I think he wasn't treated fairly by his party.) Maybe it's the circles I'd been running in, but people here in the Bay Area are quite something. I'd never felt more comfortable in groups of only Asians until I moved here. This sort of toxic denigration and talking over me, like I'm a foolish creature from a Dr. Doolitle movie -- I'd only seen it from right-leaning bigots in Ohio or South Carolina. First time in my life, I've gotten it from the left. Best that I can tell, there are a lot of people here who think it would be perfectly ok to mistreat wholesale groups of people who are more or less ordinary citizens, ordinary Republicans. There are a lot of people here who would enthusiastically denigrate innocent people, not because they necessarily disagree, but just because they'd ask certain questions. The saddest thing about it, is that such behavior comes from what I used to think was my own "tribe." I see too many attitudes that are not befitting for truth seekers, lovers of knowledge, and Liberal attitudes towards discourse and civic life.

Exactly. China isn't scary, an oppressive authoritarian regime controlling the world economy is.

by ng12 8y ago

Exactly. China isn't scary, an oppressive authoritarian regime controlling the world economy is.

stcredzero 8y ago

To what extent does the mostly single party state of California influence the world economy?

garmaine 8y ago
Non-sequitur?
- stcredzero 8y ago
  Maybe for a privileged urban techie. There are people here in California who grouse about the state being an oppressive single-party state. There are certain rural and city people (both white and black) who have to behave differently and give extra thought to avoiding unwanted law enforcement scrutiny. There have been numerous articles written about how many rural California interests are under-represented. I have a friend who lives up north in the Sierras (who actually won an award for her work in social justice) who can't go to certain bars in her town, because someone might knife her over political disagreements. There is some unrest, oppression of the less powerful, and under-representation here in California. It's much better here than in many parts of the world, but it's there. Some of it is due to the lop-sided nature of politics here.
  - asveikau 8y ago
    > people here ... who grouse about the state being an oppressive single-party state. I'm pretty sure you can say that about most states. Either you have a blue state with a rural population that feels oppressed, or a red state with an urban population that feels oppressed, or pockets of people identifying with the less dominant party within both urban or rural areas. It doesn't fit neatly into 21st century American domestic political discourse (with emphasis since 2000 on red states vs. blue states), but we're really more interspersed than we believe, at varying proportions.
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      Either you have a blue state with a rural population that feels oppressed, or a red state with an urban population that feels oppressed, or pockets of people identifying with the less dominant party within both urban or rural areas. I have a sense that California is singularly skewed in this way, however. I've seen a rural lawyer in California advise people to basically hide their cultural identity while driving. It doesn't fit neatly into 21st century American domestic political discourse (with emphasis since 2000 on red states vs. blue states), but we're really more interspersed than we believe, at varying proportions. The time to worry is when you have scapegoating of certain minorities expressed in law and government behavior. The time to worry, is then the authorities have decided it's now alright to trample on the rights of a subset of its own citizens, regardless of their innocence.
      - HashHishBang 8y ago
        >I've seen a rural lawyer in California advise people to basically hide their cultural identity while driving. Genuinely curious what one would do to hide or advertise their cultural identity while driving? Bumper stickers and flags?
        stcredzero 8y ago
        Bumper stickers and flags? Those were two of the things that were mentioned.
  - garmaine 8y ago
    Not my point. The parent to your post was talking about oppressive authoritarian regimes. You compared to a democratic state with free elections and the rule of law that happens to also consistently vote a certain way. These aren't even remotely the same thing.
    - garmaine 8y ago
      And not that it should matter, but I’m saying this as a republican living in California ...
munificent 8y ago
Today I learned that California is an oppressive authoritarian regime...
- stcredzero 8y ago
  If you go looking, you'll find that there are some people who describe it that way, and that's been the case for many years. No large polity has had a single, unanimous evaluation from all of its citizens, ever in the history of the world.
  - nostrademons 8y ago
    But that's the case for every polity - you'll find some people who find it oppressive, and a lot of people who don't. Most people in China wouldn't actually call it an oppressive authoritarian regime, even though by U.S. standards it is. It seems to extend down to ridiculously small polities, eg. there are people in the local Peace Corps alumni association (membership ~100) that call it an oppressive authoritarian regime, and I've worked at a startup with 18 employees that some of my coworkers called an oppressive authoritarian regime.
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      They key difference (should be the key metric) is exactly how badly the dissenting minority gets treated. By that measure, California is at the "not too bad, but shows some disturbing trends" stage.
      - nostrademons 8y ago
        I guess. IMHO dissenting minorities are treated pretty well in California - the Oroville dam repairs are complete (and look pretty impressive) and there's been a massive disaster response from CalFire & other local fire departments to the Redding & Paradise fires, despite those all being very red areas. And San Jose is covering the wages of TSA screeners at Mineta airport during the government shutdown, even though the TSA isn't exactly the most popular agency of Silicon Valley liberals.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> To what extent does the mostly single party state of California influence the world economy? California is not a “mostly single party state” other than in the sense that any state with a current legislative majority party is. The California Republican Party, sure, has done a horrible job keeping voters over the last decade, following the national party on its rightward march faster than voters on the state were willing to support. But they aren't systematic excluded by government in the manner of a single-party state, and while they are a weak minority in state government, much government in the state is done at the local level, and Republicans still dominate local government in substantial swathes of the state. And, unlike in a single-party state, there are no structural barriers to the state Republican Party becoming more competitive if it chooses to actually try, rather than hewing to the orthodoxy of a national party far out of line with California voters.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  The California Republican Party, sure, has done a horrible job keeping voters over the last decade, following the national party on its rightward march It's the Democrats (I was one, until recently) who have been moving left. There has been some reaction from the Republicans, but the majority of the shift has been on the left towards the left. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caQF4aCdQvE&t=817s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caQF4aCdQvE&t=817s But they aren't systematic excluded by government in the manner of a single-party state Yet. I'd seen some nutty Craiglist ads, where people refused to live with anyone who didn't support Bernie, including other Democrats. (For the record, I think he wasn't treated fairly by his party.) Maybe it's the circles I'd been running in, but people here in the Bay Area are quite something. I'd never felt more comfortable in groups of only Asians until I moved here. This sort of toxic denigration and talking over me, like I'm a foolish creature from a Dr. Doolitle movie -- I'd only seen it from right-leaning bigots in Ohio or South Carolina. First time in my life, I've gotten it from the left. Best that I can tell, there are a lot of people here who think it would be perfectly ok to mistreat wholesale groups of people who are more or less ordinary citizens, ordinary Republicans. There are a lot of people here who would enthusiastically denigrate innocent people, not because they necessarily disagree, but just because they'd ask certain questions. The saddest thing about it, is that such behavior comes from what I used to think was my own "tribe." I see too many attitudes that are not befitting for truth seekers, lovers of knowledge, and Liberal attitudes towards discourse and civic life.