5 ms·

While i don't envy their position - i think describing it as working without pay as a little disingenuous - while they have yet to be paid for the work they are

by cascom 8y ago

While i don't envy their position - i think describing it as working without pay as a little disingenuous - while they have yet to be paid for the work they are performing, does anyone really believe that they are not going to be paid for their work down the road?

walru 8y ago
Yes, they will receive back pay, but a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck.
- cascom 8y ago
  this is my point - don't you think it a salient fact to inform the reader that these employees will in fact be paid for the work they perform....at some point
  - drdeadringer 8y ago
    ... at some point where they may be homeless because of missing rent because of living paycheck to paycheck and the first $0-by-government-shutdown paychecks have already been sent out.
  - davinic 8y ago
    The point is that they won't be repaid for the costs incurred from being without any income for months. These include late fees, high interest rates on loans, long-term damage to their credit, etc.
    - pfranz 8y ago
      I heard workers sued the government over late fees and other personal penalties workers had from the 2013 shutdown. They won in court last month, but it took 6 years.
  - wvenable 8y ago
    Just imagine how many payday loans are currently being processes right now at crazy interest rates. The true fallout might actually occur long after this shutdown is over.
anth_anm 8y ago
Just not paying people for some indeterminate length of time is not acceptable. Not being paid is a very real hardship, especially when you consider TSA agent isn't exactly a high paying job. A lot of the government workers not being paid are average paycheck to paycheck Americans. I'll have the money in a few weeks isn't much comfort when you need to pay your bills and get food for your kids today.
ianleeclark 8y ago
> i think describing it as working without pay as a little disingenuous Disingenuous is taking this too far. They're paid in arrears, so the fact they've missed a paycheck means they've already done work which ought to have resulted in pay. They are currently without pay for labor they've contributed within the appropriate time-frame.
- cascom 8y ago
  look i'm not saying they are in a desirable position, or that they are not entitled to pay that they earned, what i am saying is that if you asked a private sector worker which would you rather: 1. work without pay, but knowing you will have a job and eventually get paid (TSA) or 2. find out you no longer have a job and that you will never get paid for the work you performed (the private sector example)
  - ianleeclark 8y ago
    > what i am saying is that if you asked a private sector worker which would you rather I was saying, regardless of whatever position I might take in a thought experiment, the US government has acted irrationally and violated an implicitly (and often explicitly) defined contract within our society: I give you my labor power, you give me cash. It currently stands that many government workers are without pay because that contract was violated and they have yet to be paid for their labor, so WP saying they are without pay is a valid statement.
moftz 8y ago
Congress already signed off on giving everyone back pay and I've read that they will be giving out a 1 day's pay and a $500 bonus to all TSA officers. It helps cushion the blow of having a $0.00 paycheck but it doesn't fix the situation. You have people not being able to pay rent and mortgages. The bank will be fine but a landlord might not be so fine, they will have to dig into savings to make mortgage payments. Thankfully the employees affected by the shutdown is mostly spread out across the country and not isolated to things like military bases where entire communities could suffer without paychecks coming in.
- vkou 8y ago
  It boggles my mind how the new normal consists of re-living the 'best' part of the collapse of the Soviet Union - the part where people had to go to work, but weren't getting paid for it. Of course, in the Soviet Union, you didn't have rent and mortgage payments to make, bread and vodka was provided through rations, and during the collapse, nobody cared too much if you looted your workplace of anything that wasn't nailed down, or couldn't be pried off, so society kind of stumbled along, despite the lack of wages. What I really don't understand is why this isn't being treated like the recurring, front-page, every-headline, national emergency that this is. For bonus points: These employees are forbidden, by law, to do a strike, or perform a work stoppage, or a work slowdown. If CBP actually carried one out, though, this 'crisis' would be resolved in under 24 hours, as every single company in the United States that had an international supply chain would be screaming at the White House to get this problem fixed.
  - moftz 8y ago
    Companies would probably prefer paying their employees in one lump sum every year (think of all the interest you could make investing their wages throughout the year!) The shutdown doesn't really affect corporations that much. Many govt employees still have to go to work so most things get done and for the ones that are furloughed, companies might get off easy on skipping inspections and doing proper paperwork because there is no one checking. Everyone will get paid someday but its hard going for weeks with delayed income, especially low-level govt employees who aren't exactly rolling in the dough. At least the ones on furlough have the time to go find some temporary work. The CBP workers should actually organize something, they can't fire everyone.
SilasX 8y ago
Not everyone has, or is able to (easily) have enough slack in their budget to endure something like this. Edit: To adapt Keynes: the market for payday loans can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
twblalock 8y ago
> While i don't envy their position - i think describing it as working without pay as a little disingenuous - while they have yet to be paid for the work they are performing, does anyone really believe that they are not going to be paid for their work down the road? In the meantime they need to make their rent and mortgage and car and credit card payments and their creditors aren't going to accept an IOU. So for the time being, this is exactly like working without pay.

by cascom 8y ago

walru 8y ago

Yes, they will receive back pay, but a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck.

cascom 8y ago
this is my point - don't you think it a salient fact to inform the reader that these employees will in fact be paid for the work they perform....at some point
- drdeadringer 8y ago
  ... at some point where they may be homeless because of missing rent because of living paycheck to paycheck and the first $0-by-government-shutdown paychecks have already been sent out.
- davinic 8y ago
  The point is that they won't be repaid for the costs incurred from being without any income for months. These include late fees, high interest rates on loans, long-term damage to their credit, etc.
  - pfranz 8y ago
    I heard workers sued the government over late fees and other personal penalties workers had from the 2013 shutdown. They won in court last month, but it took 6 years.
- wvenable 8y ago
  Just imagine how many payday loans are currently being processes right now at crazy interest rates. The true fallout might actually occur long after this shutdown is over.

anth_anm 8y ago

Just not paying people for some indeterminate length of time is not acceptable. Not being paid is a very real hardship, especially when you consider TSA agent isn't exactly a high paying job. A lot of the government workers not being paid are average paycheck to paycheck Americans. I'll have the money in a few weeks isn't much comfort when you need to pay your bills and get food for your kids today.

ianleeclark 8y ago

> i think describing it as working without pay as a little disingenuous Disingenuous is taking this too far. They're paid in arrears, so the fact they've missed a paycheck means they've already done work which ought to have resulted in pay. They are currently without pay for labor they've contributed within the appropriate time-frame.

cascom 8y ago
look i'm not saying they are in a desirable position, or that they are not entitled to pay that they earned, what i am saying is that if you asked a private sector worker which would you rather: 1. work without pay, but knowing you will have a job and eventually get paid (TSA) or 2. find out you no longer have a job and that you will never get paid for the work you performed (the private sector example)
- ianleeclark 8y ago
  > what i am saying is that if you asked a private sector worker which would you rather I was saying, regardless of whatever position I might take in a thought experiment, the US government has acted irrationally and violated an implicitly (and often explicitly) defined contract within our society: I give you my labor power, you give me cash. It currently stands that many government workers are without pay because that contract was violated and they have yet to be paid for their labor, so WP saying they are without pay is a valid statement.

moftz 8y ago

Congress already signed off on giving everyone back pay and I've read that they will be giving out a 1 day's pay and a $500 bonus to all TSA officers. It helps cushion the blow of having a $0.00 paycheck but it doesn't fix the situation. You have people not being able to pay rent and mortgages. The bank will be fine but a landlord might not be so fine, they will have to dig into savings to make mortgage payments. Thankfully the employees affected by the shutdown is mostly spread out across the country and not isolated to things like military bases where entire communities could suffer without paychecks coming in.

vkou 8y ago
It boggles my mind how the new normal consists of re-living the 'best' part of the collapse of the Soviet Union - the part where people had to go to work, but weren't getting paid for it. Of course, in the Soviet Union, you didn't have rent and mortgage payments to make, bread and vodka was provided through rations, and during the collapse, nobody cared too much if you looted your workplace of anything that wasn't nailed down, or couldn't be pried off, so society kind of stumbled along, despite the lack of wages. What I really don't understand is why this isn't being treated like the recurring, front-page, every-headline, national emergency that this is. For bonus points: These employees are forbidden, by law, to do a strike, or perform a work stoppage, or a work slowdown. If CBP actually carried one out, though, this 'crisis' would be resolved in under 24 hours, as every single company in the United States that had an international supply chain would be screaming at the White House to get this problem fixed.
- moftz 8y ago
  Companies would probably prefer paying their employees in one lump sum every year (think of all the interest you could make investing their wages throughout the year!) The shutdown doesn't really affect corporations that much. Many govt employees still have to go to work so most things get done and for the ones that are furloughed, companies might get off easy on skipping inspections and doing proper paperwork because there is no one checking. Everyone will get paid someday but its hard going for weeks with delayed income, especially low-level govt employees who aren't exactly rolling in the dough. At least the ones on furlough have the time to go find some temporary work. The CBP workers should actually organize something, they can't fire everyone.

SilasX 8y ago

Not everyone has, or is able to (easily) have enough slack in their budget to endure something like this. Edit: To adapt Keynes: the market for payday loans can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

twblalock 8y ago

> While i don't envy their position - i think describing it as working without pay as a little disingenuous - while they have yet to be paid for the work they are performing, does anyone really believe that they are not going to be paid for their work down the road? In the meantime they need to make their rent and mortgage and car and credit card payments and their creditors aren't going to accept an IOU. So for the time being, this is exactly like working without pay.