6 ms·

I only know from what I've heard from people who have worked in jails/prisons in the US (and maybe things are different in the UK although I doubt it) but the o

I only know from what I've heard from people who have worked in jails/prisons in the US (and maybe things are different in the UK although I doubt it) but the one thing anyone can expect which is not mentioned here, if they are reasonably young/physically acceptable appearance, is to get raped. From what I understand, there's really no getting away from it either. There's the myth that you just have to stand up and fight and they'll leave you alone but it's not really true. You might fight off the one guy today, tomorrow there will be four of them. Even the young kids coming in who might be gang members and think they are 'tough' or connected end up getting it, their outside status really ends up meaning very little. Not to seem like I'm derailing what the author of the article is talking about, but the fact that he doesn't mention what will likely be the most brutal part of anyone's experience in prison makes the other advice seem almost trivial and irrelevant by comparison.

locacorten 8y ago
This is very interesting. I wish I could read more about it. Is this true of minimum-security prisons too?
- crazynick4 8y ago
  I'm not sure in regards to the type of facility that the guards I spoke to worked at. One was definitely a jail, so this was pre-conviction, don't know the security level. Essentially, it's an unspoken agreement between the guards and inmates. The guards allow certain things, the inmates don't cause trouble. Without an agreement like this, the guards are outnumbered and it's practically impossible to keep the peace. So I was told anyhow.
  - jopsen 8y ago
    There are many ways to justify evil.
    - syrrim 8y ago
      Motherjones had a reporter get a job as a prison guard. His experience was similar: if he doesn't play nice with the inmates they will make his life hell. This was at a private prison, so the under-staffing issue might be more pronounced, but the principle applies.
      - jopsen 8y ago
        The problem starts when a guard yells at an inmate without provocation. Such action should be grounds for termination. But yes, you need a good culture to start with, and you need trained personal to establish that.
mjw1007 8y ago
From this comment of the author's, it seems plausible things are different in the UK. https://prisonuk.blogspot.com/2016/03/preparing-for-prison.html?showComment=1476399500895#c4206429310146157393 https://prisonuk.blogspot.com/2016/03/preparing-for-prison.h...
jccc 8y ago
He does say at the end, "However, if you are sensible, keep your head low and steer clear of drugs, debt, stealing from other cons and ‘grassing’ (informing on fellow prisoners), you are unlikely to be the target of any violence."
- hackermailman 8y ago
  Also following the unwritten rules esp the newer gigantic dorm prisons where there are countless rules since you're all crammed in there. The violence here is from your own group if you break the rules because they're trying to get rid of you from that dorm before it escalates. A typical prison intake you are met by another inmate who already somehow knows everything about you and has already announced you to everybody else. He brings you to your group in the dorm and they tell you the rules. Nothing ever happens after that for 90% of inmates not involved in gangs except really grinding prison labor everyday.
  - emayljames 8y ago
    This is about UK prisons.
sschueller 8y ago
Where is the outrage and action to prevent these kinds of abuse in US prisons? What does this say about a society that just accepts this as normal. Makes it clear that what happened in Abu grab was not just some bad apples but and underlying acceptance of such behavior at home. It is shameful.
- everdev 8y ago
  It's not only shameful but counter productive. Some think that horrible conditions are a deterrent, but there are several problems: 1. Innocent people do get convicted 2. Prisoner suicide 3. Inability to integrate back into a less violent community 4. A prisoner code that requires you to participate in violence or be subjected to it For a sobering account, check out Shaun Attwood on YouTube: https://youtube.com/user/derickatt https://youtube.com/user/derickatt He served in Maricopa County Jail under super Max and medium security. The stories of violence from medium security are just as violent as any fictional movie you've seen. Our prisons seem to be trying to fight fire (violence) with more fire. It's a horribly unethical game we're playing with people's lives that seems to provide little comfort to our society or the victims.
  - kbenson 8y ago
    I think it's currently a losing battle in America, where much of the populace thinks "being a criminal" is a binary toggle that means you deserve anything that happens to you in prison, and doesn't put enough thought into it to realize how crazy that idea is. I'm fairly sure if you took anyone with this view and forced them to have a conversation with you where you presented various scenarios (such as some low-harm and impact crime prisoner ending up getting repeatedly raped), they might change their mind, but actually getting people to listen with an open mind to alternative points of view is amazingly hard in the current charged climate where every issue is a political one.
    - abfan1127 8y ago
      Americans seem to think Prison is a punishment so the more miserable the better. In Reality, Prison should be a place to isolate those who can't be trusted to be free. When trust can be established, they don't belong there anymore. When the concept of prison as isolation is adopted, fewer people go to prison, including innocent people.
damontal 8y ago
i remember seeing a documentary where a prison doctor asked why are all these big strong guys coming in with damaged necks/tracheas? it was because they get ganged up on by a group, his head put in a toilet while a guy sits on the seat on top of his head, while the other rape him. it had nothing to do with the guy's size. didn't matter how big he was.
3pt14159 8y ago
That is not what the podcasts I've been listening to have led me to believe. I've heard that it's very different state-to-state and prison-to-prison.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
gingerbread-man 8y ago
A lot of progress has been made since the 2003 passage of "PREA," the Prison Rape Elimination Act. https://www.prearesourcecenter.org/about/prison-rape-elimination-act-prea https://www.prearesourcecenter.org/about/prison-rape-elimina... Anecdotal: When I went through police training several years ago, one of our instructors was a former jail capitan. I've never met anyone in my life who took sexual assault and sexual assault prevention more seriously.
izzydata 8y ago
That pretty horrifying. The physical abuse involved is pretty terrible in of itself, but there must also be widespread hiv / aids. This is bad news for everyone.
- everdev 8y ago
  Hep is also a risk
hackermailman 8y ago
Sexual assaults are not that common. Prison these days you just play a lot of cards and work for pennies per hour for the most part. Skinners (rapists) are not welcome in units and have to check in to protective custody if it's discovered they're raping other inmates and there's no way to hide anything, everybody can see you at all times you can't hang sheets or anything anymore like when this used to be common. Most units are now giant dorms even medium security where lot's of gangs end up. The biggest problem for a young man in prison is getting more time added by hanging around gangs not being assaulted by them.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- p1esk 8y ago
  Source?
  - EliRivers 8y ago
    Here's one: https://prisonuk.blogspot.com/2015/02/sex-in-prison-inside-story.html https://prisonuk.blogspot.com/2015/02/sex-in-prison-inside-s...
    - herostratus101 8y ago
      Is this specific to the UK? Because if so, it's irrelevant to what the person above was asking.
rtb 8y ago
The author doesn't mention endemic rape in US prisons because he is writing about UK prisons. All Americans should be ashamed of the state of their prison system.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
EliRivers 8y ago
He does discuss that in another post: https://prisonuk.blogspot.com/2015/02/sex-in-prison-inside-story.html https://prisonuk.blogspot.com/2015/02/sex-in-prison-inside-s... He says rape does happen, but it's the exception rather than the rule. Obviously he's discussing the UK; maybe things are different in the US.
ridiculousresp 8y ago
That's not even remotely true. Sexual assaults are way over blown. This isn't the movies. No one is going to rape you in the shower after taking your lunch tray the day you walk in there. Homosexuality is rampant in state prisons. No one is raping to get laid. If someone gets raped it's incredibly likely it was over a large debt or because they were a snitch or pedo but even then its super rare. And its not a myth that if you stand up and fight people leave you alone. Its never about winning or losing in a jail fight. It's about whether you stood up for yourself and whether or not you kept your mouth shut about it afterwards. Please stop making shit up on forums. You clearly don't know what prison is like. Oh and I was 18 when I went to state prison. So its not a matter of being young or not. Rape just isn't super common. It only has such a reputation in there because people like you talk out of there ass about it.
- crazynick4 8y ago
  It's just what I've heard from people who've worked there and others who've had friends come back from prison. The consensus was about the same, but you're right, I personally don't know what prison is like.
reesesfeces 8y ago
In a US county jail I saw young kids get fleeced by cons constantly. They'd buddy up with them and take whatever commissary funds they could by stealing their account password and selling phone calls. Predation works best when it can be sustained with minimal risk. Only heard of one sexual assault in another pod (was locked up for a year) but saw numerous instances of people kiting out with debts.
baud147258 8y ago
I have read a personal account from an american ex-convict, who explained that sex exists in prison but is nearly always consensual.
- baud147258 8y ago
  The thread is in the private part of a forum that's accessible only to account older than one year. Or you could buy access for 5$. https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/ask-an-ex-con-almost-anything.91744/ https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/ask-an-ex-con-...

locacorten 8y ago

This is very interesting. I wish I could read more about it. Is this true of minimum-security prisons too?

crazynick4 8y ago
I'm not sure in regards to the type of facility that the guards I spoke to worked at. One was definitely a jail, so this was pre-conviction, don't know the security level. Essentially, it's an unspoken agreement between the guards and inmates. The guards allow certain things, the inmates don't cause trouble. Without an agreement like this, the guards are outnumbered and it's practically impossible to keep the peace. So I was told anyhow.
- jopsen 8y ago
  There are many ways to justify evil.
  - syrrim 8y ago
    Motherjones had a reporter get a job as a prison guard. His experience was similar: if he doesn't play nice with the inmates they will make his life hell. This was at a private prison, so the under-staffing issue might be more pronounced, but the principle applies.
    - jopsen 8y ago
      The problem starts when a guard yells at an inmate without provocation. Such action should be grounds for termination. But yes, you need a good culture to start with, and you need trained personal to establish that.

mjw1007 8y ago

From this comment of the author's, it seems plausible things are different in the UK. https://prisonuk.blogspot.com/2016/03/preparing-for-prison.html?showComment=1476399500895#c4206429310146157393 https://prisonuk.blogspot.com/2016/03/preparing-for-prison.h...

jccc 8y ago

He does say at the end, "However, if you are sensible, keep your head low and steer clear of drugs, debt, stealing from other cons and ‘grassing’ (informing on fellow prisoners), you are unlikely to be the target of any violence."

hackermailman 8y ago
Also following the unwritten rules esp the newer gigantic dorm prisons where there are countless rules since you're all crammed in there. The violence here is from your own group if you break the rules because they're trying to get rid of you from that dorm before it escalates. A typical prison intake you are met by another inmate who already somehow knows everything about you and has already announced you to everybody else. He brings you to your group in the dorm and they tell you the rules. Nothing ever happens after that for 90% of inmates not involved in gangs except really grinding prison labor everyday.
- emayljames 8y ago
  This is about UK prisons.

sschueller 8y ago

Where is the outrage and action to prevent these kinds of abuse in US prisons? What does this say about a society that just accepts this as normal. Makes it clear that what happened in Abu grab was not just some bad apples but and underlying acceptance of such behavior at home. It is shameful.

everdev 8y ago
It's not only shameful but counter productive. Some think that horrible conditions are a deterrent, but there are several problems: 1. Innocent people do get convicted 2. Prisoner suicide 3. Inability to integrate back into a less violent community 4. A prisoner code that requires you to participate in violence or be subjected to it For a sobering account, check out Shaun Attwood on YouTube: https://youtube.com/user/derickatt https://youtube.com/user/derickatt He served in Maricopa County Jail under super Max and medium security. The stories of violence from medium security are just as violent as any fictional movie you've seen. Our prisons seem to be trying to fight fire (violence) with more fire. It's a horribly unethical game we're playing with people's lives that seems to provide little comfort to our society or the victims.
- kbenson 8y ago
  I think it's currently a losing battle in America, where much of the populace thinks "being a criminal" is a binary toggle that means you deserve anything that happens to you in prison, and doesn't put enough thought into it to realize how crazy that idea is. I'm fairly sure if you took anyone with this view and forced them to have a conversation with you where you presented various scenarios (such as some low-harm and impact crime prisoner ending up getting repeatedly raped), they might change their mind, but actually getting people to listen with an open mind to alternative points of view is amazingly hard in the current charged climate where every issue is a political one.
  - abfan1127 8y ago
    Americans seem to think Prison is a punishment so the more miserable the better. In Reality, Prison should be a place to isolate those who can't be trusted to be free. When trust can be established, they don't belong there anymore. When the concept of prison as isolation is adopted, fewer people go to prison, including innocent people.

damontal 8y ago

i remember seeing a documentary where a prison doctor asked why are all these big strong guys coming in with damaged necks/tracheas? it was because they get ganged up on by a group, his head put in a toilet while a guy sits on the seat on top of his head, while the other rape him. it had nothing to do with the guy's size. didn't matter how big he was.

3pt14159 8y ago

That is not what the podcasts I've been listening to have led me to believe. I've heard that it's very different state-to-state and prison-to-prison.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

gingerbread-man 8y ago

A lot of progress has been made since the 2003 passage of "PREA," the Prison Rape Elimination Act. https://www.prearesourcecenter.org/about/prison-rape-elimination-act-prea https://www.prearesourcecenter.org/about/prison-rape-elimina... Anecdotal: When I went through police training several years ago, one of our instructors was a former jail capitan. I've never met anyone in my life who took sexual assault and sexual assault prevention more seriously.

izzydata 8y ago

That pretty horrifying. The physical abuse involved is pretty terrible in of itself, but there must also be widespread hiv / aids. This is bad news for everyone.

everdev 8y ago
Hep is also a risk

hackermailman 8y ago

Sexual assaults are not that common. Prison these days you just play a lot of cards and work for pennies per hour for the most part. Skinners (rapists) are not welcome in units and have to check in to protective custody if it's discovered they're raping other inmates and there's no way to hide anything, everybody can see you at all times you can't hang sheets or anything anymore like when this used to be common. Most units are now giant dorms even medium security where lot's of gangs end up. The biggest problem for a young man in prison is getting more time added by hanging around gangs not being assaulted by them.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
p1esk 8y ago
Source?
- EliRivers 8y ago
  Here's one: https://prisonuk.blogspot.com/2015/02/sex-in-prison-inside-story.html https://prisonuk.blogspot.com/2015/02/sex-in-prison-inside-s...
  - herostratus101 8y ago
    Is this specific to the UK? Because if so, it's irrelevant to what the person above was asking.

rtb 8y ago

The author doesn't mention endemic rape in US prisons because he is writing about UK prisons. All Americans should be ashamed of the state of their prison system.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

EliRivers 8y ago

He does discuss that in another post: https://prisonuk.blogspot.com/2015/02/sex-in-prison-inside-story.html https://prisonuk.blogspot.com/2015/02/sex-in-prison-inside-s... He says rape does happen, but it's the exception rather than the rule. Obviously he's discussing the UK; maybe things are different in the US.

ridiculousresp 8y ago

That's not even remotely true. Sexual assaults are way over blown. This isn't the movies. No one is going to rape you in the shower after taking your lunch tray the day you walk in there. Homosexuality is rampant in state prisons. No one is raping to get laid. If someone gets raped it's incredibly likely it was over a large debt or because they were a snitch or pedo but even then its super rare. And its not a myth that if you stand up and fight people leave you alone. Its never about winning or losing in a jail fight. It's about whether you stood up for yourself and whether or not you kept your mouth shut about it afterwards. Please stop making shit up on forums. You clearly don't know what prison is like. Oh and I was 18 when I went to state prison. So its not a matter of being young or not. Rape just isn't super common. It only has such a reputation in there because people like you talk out of there ass about it.

crazynick4 8y ago
It's just what I've heard from people who've worked there and others who've had friends come back from prison. The consensus was about the same, but you're right, I personally don't know what prison is like.

reesesfeces 8y ago

In a US county jail I saw young kids get fleeced by cons constantly. They'd buddy up with them and take whatever commissary funds they could by stealing their account password and selling phone calls. Predation works best when it can be sustained with minimal risk. Only heard of one sexual assault in another pod (was locked up for a year) but saw numerous instances of people kiting out with debts.

baud147258 8y ago

I have read a personal account from an american ex-convict, who explained that sex exists in prison but is nearly always consensual.

baud147258 8y ago
The thread is in the private part of a forum that's accessible only to account older than one year. Or you could buy access for 5$. https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/ask-an-ex-con-almost-anything.91744/ https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/ask-an-ex-con-...