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>Student loans become a problem when they are used to subsidize high-tuition schools teaching skills which don’t connect to a wage-premium. Only 5.4% of Americ

>Student loans become a problem when they are used to subsidize high-tuition schools teaching skills which don’t connect to a wage-premium. Only 5.4% of Americans make over $100k. I believe 20% of students graduate with over $100k in student loans. The problem is the Pandora’s box and unwillingness to admit we tried an experiment and it failed, it’s great we wanted to guarantee loans to pay for secondary education, but we have to admit the American economy sucks and overwhelmingly can’t support this student debt (good luck finding a politician who will say that, much less be able to take any action to remove guaranteed student loans. Other interesting facts: More Americans hold student loan debt than the population of over 200 countries Over 7 million (>2%) of the U.S. population has defaulted on their student loans Student loan debt is the second highest form of debt in the U.S., second only to mortgages Almost 30% student loan borrowers move back in with their parents after graduation Over 34% of borrowers have delayed starting a family because of their debt Over 47% of borrowers have delayed buying a car because of their debt Over 73% of borrowers have delayed saving for retirement because of their debt Around 63% of borrowers have delayed buying a home because of their debt Almost 28% borrowers have delayed getting married because of their debt

cronix 8y ago
Those are some nice straight up statistics. To me, a more accurate breakdown would show the degree type, avg cost to obtain said degree, and average income for people who hold the degree 1 year, 5 years and 10 years after graduation. Also how many people with that degree actually end up working in the field that they hold the degree for. Some fields pay, and will always pay, a lot more than others. Some fields actually have marketability with demand, and will pay more. Peoples actual choices play a larger role than most are usually willing to admit. It's easier to just say "I am x in debt and don't make enough to ever pay it off and it's the systems fault," rather than "I chose a field where there isn't high demand, or isn't worth enough in the marketplace to make enough money to pay off my obligations and have a comfortable life."
- LarryDarrell 8y ago
  If degree marketability is the sole point of higher education then let's stop calling them universities and start calling them what we intend them to be, trade schools. I'd hate to think that the ideal American higher education system is one where only the idle rich get to study what they want or are interested in.
  - cronix 8y ago
    No it's not the sole point. Just a practical one that most consumers exercise when making a consumer decision on what to buy and the cost/benefit analysis of its practicality. It seems a lot of people don't actually do that when making one of the biggest decisions of their lives, and this part has nothing to do with the actual teachings in college. That should be determined before you even apply. A lot of people do in fact choose to go into fields where the pay is not that great. That's perfectly fine if someone is willing to accept that, but if it doesn't pay enough to meet your obligations and have enough left over for you to be comfortable and have the lifestyle you're striving for, then that's also a decision that should be accepted. It was a choice. If you buy a truck that gets 13mpg, and you get mad at how expensive gas is costing you every time it increases and how fast your vehicle goes through it, should we get mad at the truck manufacturer or the company that gave you the loan for your decision, that could have been fairly accurately determined beforehand with a bit of research and critical thinking (gas prices will rise in the future)? I pushed my daughters very hard to research what they wanted to do with their lives, and made them think hard about the upcoming automation revolution. A great number of modern day jobs are going to just go away and won't be directly replaceable. People should be aware of that and go into fields that aren't as easily automated if they want to do well in the future. We all know self driving cars/trucks are coming, and fairly soon. Would you encourage someone to go into the trucking industry today if they are young and figuring out what they want to do with the rest of their lives?
Domenic_S 8y ago
> we have to admit the American economy sucks In what way? I think it's working exactly as intended, to siphon wealth off to the ruling class. Spending is like a gas, it will expand to fit its constraints. Those stats are not great for borrowers, but they're great for lenders. One take is to blame the lenders -- they lend too much, chaining the borrowers to debt. The other take is to blame the debtors, reframing those stats as, e.g., "Over 34% of borrowers have delayed starting a family because they preferred spending borrowed money." The truth is of course somewhere in the middle: debt is a wonderful leverage tool when used properly, but lenders will gladly give you more than enough rope to hang yourself. In today's world the only one looking out for you is you. (for the sake of this comment, I'm talking about non-medical debt)
- will_brown 8y ago
  >I think it's working exactly as intended, to siphon wealth off to the ruling class. Intended according to who? The founders? The central banks? Creditors? It’s all an experiment. Capitalism is. Consumer debt is. To think anyone intends the economy to work as it is (government shut down, debt across the board at record highs, defaults at record highs, economic bubbles, mass fraud, etc...) is pretty crazy...but that’s my point, good luck finding a politician to speak that way, much less being able to mobilize the government to correct these issues. It’s pretty easy to get caught up in the idea it’s working for you. I take it youre not one of the federal government employees living paycheck to paycheck as a political pawn? Is that the way the economy is really intended to work?
  - Domenic_S 8y ago
    Intended by the people with the power to influence it, obviously. We are in the lowest default rate period since the Great Recession, I don’t know where you’re getting this sky-is-falling take on the economy.

cronix 8y ago

Those are some nice straight up statistics. To me, a more accurate breakdown would show the degree type, avg cost to obtain said degree, and average income for people who hold the degree 1 year, 5 years and 10 years after graduation. Also how many people with that degree actually end up working in the field that they hold the degree for. Some fields pay, and will always pay, a lot more than others. Some fields actually have marketability with demand, and will pay more. Peoples actual choices play a larger role than most are usually willing to admit. It's easier to just say "I am x in debt and don't make enough to ever pay it off and it's the systems fault," rather than "I chose a field where there isn't high demand, or isn't worth enough in the marketplace to make enough money to pay off my obligations and have a comfortable life."

LarryDarrell 8y ago
If degree marketability is the sole point of higher education then let's stop calling them universities and start calling them what we intend them to be, trade schools. I'd hate to think that the ideal American higher education system is one where only the idle rich get to study what they want or are interested in.
- cronix 8y ago
  No it's not the sole point. Just a practical one that most consumers exercise when making a consumer decision on what to buy and the cost/benefit analysis of its practicality. It seems a lot of people don't actually do that when making one of the biggest decisions of their lives, and this part has nothing to do with the actual teachings in college. That should be determined before you even apply. A lot of people do in fact choose to go into fields where the pay is not that great. That's perfectly fine if someone is willing to accept that, but if it doesn't pay enough to meet your obligations and have enough left over for you to be comfortable and have the lifestyle you're striving for, then that's also a decision that should be accepted. It was a choice. If you buy a truck that gets 13mpg, and you get mad at how expensive gas is costing you every time it increases and how fast your vehicle goes through it, should we get mad at the truck manufacturer or the company that gave you the loan for your decision, that could have been fairly accurately determined beforehand with a bit of research and critical thinking (gas prices will rise in the future)? I pushed my daughters very hard to research what they wanted to do with their lives, and made them think hard about the upcoming automation revolution. A great number of modern day jobs are going to just go away and won't be directly replaceable. People should be aware of that and go into fields that aren't as easily automated if they want to do well in the future. We all know self driving cars/trucks are coming, and fairly soon. Would you encourage someone to go into the trucking industry today if they are young and figuring out what they want to do with the rest of their lives?

Domenic_S 8y ago

> we have to admit the American economy sucks In what way? I think it's working exactly as intended, to siphon wealth off to the ruling class. Spending is like a gas, it will expand to fit its constraints. Those stats are not great for borrowers, but they're great for lenders. One take is to blame the lenders -- they lend too much, chaining the borrowers to debt. The other take is to blame the debtors, reframing those stats as, e.g., "Over 34% of borrowers have delayed starting a family because they preferred spending borrowed money." The truth is of course somewhere in the middle: debt is a wonderful leverage tool when used properly, but lenders will gladly give you more than enough rope to hang yourself. In today's world the only one looking out for you is you. (for the sake of this comment, I'm talking about non-medical debt)

will_brown 8y ago
>I think it's working exactly as intended, to siphon wealth off to the ruling class. Intended according to who? The founders? The central banks? Creditors? It’s all an experiment. Capitalism is. Consumer debt is. To think anyone intends the economy to work as it is (government shut down, debt across the board at record highs, defaults at record highs, economic bubbles, mass fraud, etc...) is pretty crazy...but that’s my point, good luck finding a politician to speak that way, much less being able to mobilize the government to correct these issues. It’s pretty easy to get caught up in the idea it’s working for you. I take it youre not one of the federal government employees living paycheck to paycheck as a political pawn? Is that the way the economy is really intended to work?
- Domenic_S 8y ago
  Intended by the people with the power to influence it, obviously. We are in the lowest default rate period since the Great Recession, I don’t know where you’re getting this sky-is-falling take on the economy.