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And if the candidate will be writing a new DOM traversal API, this is a valid exercise. As it stands, any of the libraries that do DOM manipulation for me also

And if the candidate will be writing a new DOM traversal API, this is a valid exercise. As it stands, any of the libraries that do DOM manipulation for me also traverse the tree for me ... so, again, why do I need to implement a toy BFS in an interview?

jokh 8y ago
Because one day you might need to, and you'll write a 100 lines of code to do it. If you had known what a BFS is and how to write it, you'd be able to accomplish the same task in 10 lines of code.
- dimillian 8y ago
  Counter argument: I could google it, read about it, and implement it. All of it in 1/2H with a computer with internet. Not on a whiteboard. Which is a fucking stupid interview process.
- dev_dull 8y ago
  Very unlikely in my opinion. Either you’re told about it beforehand, inherit a project that’s using it, or introduced to it during your PR. Especially in places that ask about them during an interview... I don’t think it’s about the BFS, it’s about attitude.
mattnewton 8y ago
To debug the traversal algorithm when it breaks in production? Also, if you know that all the companies do this, why don’t you just study before hand? Tree traversals come up multiple times in the article. I understand the author’s frustration but not their (early) insistence on not studying for an important interview. When they did study later I wonder how seriously they took it based on the tone.
- delinka 8y ago
  >To debug the traversal algorithm when it breaks in production? And what's the likelihood of that happening with a well-used framework? Maybe the interviewer wants to see my ability to debug problems - great let's do that instead. You want to see how I work? OK, let's pair on something. Pinning this to "implement BFS at the drop of a hat on a whiteboard or in this project" is bullshit. >Also, if you know that all the companies do this, why don’t you just study before hand? Fine. I'll implement a few solutions to the problem in the languages I'm familiar with and put it on GitHub. Now the interviewer can check it out and we don't have to waste time at a whiteboard.
  - throwawaymath 8y ago
    > what's the likelihood of that happening with a well-used framework? In my experience, higher than you'd hope.
- zentiggr 8y ago
  You have heard of the monkey - ladder - banana experiments? Just because the interview culture has evolved to this awkward unrepresentative generally unhelpful filtering method, is no justification for "well just do it that way and you'll be fine". If I'm the new monkey, and someone smacks me for touching the ladder, I'm going to ask why and push back if there's no good answer.
watwut 8y ago
Mostly because it is simple enough and does not require special knowledge except knowing what tree is. Comming with original situation is harder and would put candidate to more random position. The maze solving could be solved by breadth first too. It is algorithm that can be used in many different contexts.

jokh 8y ago

Because one day you might need to, and you'll write a 100 lines of code to do it. If you had known what a BFS is and how to write it, you'd be able to accomplish the same task in 10 lines of code.

dimillian 8y ago
Counter argument: I could google it, read about it, and implement it. All of it in 1/2H with a computer with internet. Not on a whiteboard. Which is a fucking stupid interview process.
dev_dull 8y ago
Very unlikely in my opinion. Either you’re told about it beforehand, inherit a project that’s using it, or introduced to it during your PR. Especially in places that ask about them during an interview... I don’t think it’s about the BFS, it’s about attitude.

mattnewton 8y ago

To debug the traversal algorithm when it breaks in production? Also, if you know that all the companies do this, why don’t you just study before hand? Tree traversals come up multiple times in the article. I understand the author’s frustration but not their (early) insistence on not studying for an important interview. When they did study later I wonder how seriously they took it based on the tone.

delinka 8y ago
>To debug the traversal algorithm when it breaks in production? And what's the likelihood of that happening with a well-used framework? Maybe the interviewer wants to see my ability to debug problems - great let's do that instead. You want to see how I work? OK, let's pair on something. Pinning this to "implement BFS at the drop of a hat on a whiteboard or in this project" is bullshit. >Also, if you know that all the companies do this, why don’t you just study before hand? Fine. I'll implement a few solutions to the problem in the languages I'm familiar with and put it on GitHub. Now the interviewer can check it out and we don't have to waste time at a whiteboard.
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  > what's the likelihood of that happening with a well-used framework? In my experience, higher than you'd hope.
zentiggr 8y ago
You have heard of the monkey - ladder - banana experiments? Just because the interview culture has evolved to this awkward unrepresentative generally unhelpful filtering method, is no justification for "well just do it that way and you'll be fine". If I'm the new monkey, and someone smacks me for touching the ladder, I'm going to ask why and push back if there's no good answer.

watwut 8y ago

Mostly because it is simple enough and does not require special knowledge except knowing what tree is. Comming with original situation is harder and would put candidate to more random position. The maze solving could be solved by breadth first too. It is algorithm that can be used in many different contexts.