5 ms·

> drugs pay off in visible ways only for people who have already put in the hard work of figuring out how to make and do interesting things. I agree with this.

> drugs pay off in visible ways only for people who have already put in the hard work of figuring out how to make and do interesting things. I agree with this. I’ve known a lot of people who have done a lot of psychedelics and most of them learned absolutely nothing from it if I’m being honest, and the few who had what I’d consider to be profound or interesting insights from it were deep thinkers anyway.

sametmax 8y ago
Intersting, but not unexpected. If you give people a masterpiece, be it music, a painting, a book, etc., uneducated people will not get nearly as much out of it as more educated people. If you give fantastic ski gears to most people, then won't ski better than before, but to a good skier, they will change a lot. It makes sense that you can use a tool to the maximum potential that you are capable of.
ttonkytonk 8y ago
I disagree with this type of thinking, as if some people with the same opportunities choose the less rewarding path as a consequence of laziness. I like the metaphor of a battle, where it's easier to apply lots of energy to the front when your flanks are secured. For many people they are surrounded by financial insecurity, dysfunctional social structures and even unsecure psychic structures.
- 7Z7 8y ago
  I didn't read it as indicating laziness, I read it as those who make time to build creative structures with a straight mind may more easily make use of the psychedelic's influence than those who have not. ie. psychedelics don't make you creative, they inform your creativity
  - ttonkytonk 8y ago
    It seems to imply a moral failure though.
    - 7Z7 8y ago
      If that's how you read, maybe. I'm not getting anything other than "psychedelics are not a shortcut"
  - empath75 8y ago
    Yeah it’s a particularly interesting life experience to have, but it takes a lot of work to integrate it in a useful way.
armitron 8y ago
LSD primarily teaches you to see things from multiple perspectives. It blows away the consensus and is most effective when trying to see through conditioning of any sort. I think anyone with a modicum of self-awareness and self-insight can gain a lot from these, baseline, effects. One doesn't need to be a creative genius. There are multiple difficulties when talking about LSD experiences, especially to others, given the enormous degree of subjectivity and variability in these experiences. Sometimes, the transformative effects take time to manifest or time for one to realize that they did manifest. Most importantly, given that LSD plays tricks with one's notion of what constitutes one's self, one can be rewired in major ways and never himself realize it. Psychedelics in my view are a supremely useful tool. They can lead to unveiling hidden potential, intelligence amplification, wilds bouts of creativity, confronting and healing traumatic events, breaking free of conditioning, resetting and transforming one's mind. These are baseline effects, there is also the spiritual/shamanic domain which - for some - is by far the more interesting one.
- jordandeang 8y ago
  > LSD primarily teaches you to see things from multiple perspectives. Hard agree. The least anyone can take out of it is a new perspective which does not come often to many.
m0th87 8y ago
For me, psychedelics (temporarily [1]) blew away the unfortunate habits that made me feel compelled to size other people up, or to care much for how others were sizing me up. From the outside, this probably looks like laziness or shallowness, because someone who has "peeked behind the curtain" may not be motivated by the same external forces as before. 1: That, to me, has always been the unfortunate aspect of psychedelics - the moment is fleeting. Luckily, meditation and just generally being present has been much more sticky.

sametmax 8y ago

Intersting, but not unexpected. If you give people a masterpiece, be it music, a painting, a book, etc., uneducated people will not get nearly as much out of it as more educated people. If you give fantastic ski gears to most people, then won't ski better than before, but to a good skier, they will change a lot. It makes sense that you can use a tool to the maximum potential that you are capable of.

ttonkytonk 8y ago

I disagree with this type of thinking, as if some people with the same opportunities choose the less rewarding path as a consequence of laziness. I like the metaphor of a battle, where it's easier to apply lots of energy to the front when your flanks are secured. For many people they are surrounded by financial insecurity, dysfunctional social structures and even unsecure psychic structures.

7Z7 8y ago
I didn't read it as indicating laziness, I read it as those who make time to build creative structures with a straight mind may more easily make use of the psychedelic's influence than those who have not. ie. psychedelics don't make you creative, they inform your creativity
- ttonkytonk 8y ago
  It seems to imply a moral failure though.
  - 7Z7 8y ago
    If that's how you read, maybe. I'm not getting anything other than "psychedelics are not a shortcut"
- empath75 8y ago
  Yeah it’s a particularly interesting life experience to have, but it takes a lot of work to integrate it in a useful way.

armitron 8y ago

LSD primarily teaches you to see things from multiple perspectives. It blows away the consensus and is most effective when trying to see through conditioning of any sort. I think anyone with a modicum of self-awareness and self-insight can gain a lot from these, baseline, effects. One doesn't need to be a creative genius. There are multiple difficulties when talking about LSD experiences, especially to others, given the enormous degree of subjectivity and variability in these experiences. Sometimes, the transformative effects take time to manifest or time for one to realize that they did manifest. Most importantly, given that LSD plays tricks with one's notion of what constitutes one's self, one can be rewired in major ways and never himself realize it. Psychedelics in my view are a supremely useful tool. They can lead to unveiling hidden potential, intelligence amplification, wilds bouts of creativity, confronting and healing traumatic events, breaking free of conditioning, resetting and transforming one's mind. These are baseline effects, there is also the spiritual/shamanic domain which - for some - is by far the more interesting one.

jordandeang 8y ago
> LSD primarily teaches you to see things from multiple perspectives. Hard agree. The least anyone can take out of it is a new perspective which does not come often to many.

m0th87 8y ago

For me, psychedelics (temporarily [1]) blew away the unfortunate habits that made me feel compelled to size other people up, or to care much for how others were sizing me up. From the outside, this probably looks like laziness or shallowness, because someone who has "peeked behind the curtain" may not be motivated by the same external forces as before. 1: That, to me, has always been the unfortunate aspect of psychedelics - the moment is fleeting. Luckily, meditation and just generally being present has been much more sticky.