5 ms·

Several issues with this idea: 1) On the open ocean, what is there to even avoid? In the harbor, you often don't have a choice; the harbor master is going

Several issues with this idea: 1) On the open ocean, what is there to even avoid? In the harbor, you often don't have a choice; the harbor master is going to _require_ you to pick up a harbor pilot who is rated and certified for the harbor you'll be in and they must be in command of the ships steering and propulsion in order for your ship to even enter their waters. 2) Only 20% of the global merchant fleet is dedicated to shipping. The two other major types of ships, tugs and passenger ships make up most of the rest and neither of these are exactly suited to this technology. 3) Over 50% of the ships in use right now are more than 15 years old. Yea, a new one is _only_ $200 million, but that washes over the real economic picture of ship ownership and maintenance and the likely market for this product. 4) Most ships are not giant Maersk style super-container ships, so staffing reductions aren't likely to be a huge win here, if at all. Ships already run with the _minimum_ crew necessary, usually determined by already established maritime laws and agreements. 5) Microphones and pictures are nice, but ships have actual radar; why not just use that and skip all the fancy "sensor fusion" and off-brand retrofitting?

madrox 8y ago
I get the impression you didn't actually read the article, as it addresses most of your questions.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- akira2501 8y ago
  > as it addresses most of your questions. Vaguely suggesting that three different companies are separately attacking different parts of the problem in a very narrow area of the world with special permits and no collective breakdown of their efforts, their progress or their potential benefits didn't seem to effectively address anything nor does it support it's own headline. The headline was my main beef; but, we could get into the fact that the two most common maritime insurance claims are for weather damage and theft.. striking submerged objects is also a very common one, which is why harbors require skilled pilots with continual testing to bring boats in and out of those waters. I'm still very much suspicious of these "bolt-on" AI businesses and all the uncritical hype that surrounds them.
ehnto 8y ago
There are some ships, small sailing ships for example, that do not get picked up by radar. They often need to get radar reflectors fitted to be visible. You certainly wouldn't want to be on a sailing vessel while an automated cargo ship barrels down on you. Sailing ships get right of way to powered ships as well so detecting the difference between vessels is important and the automation would need to take that into account too. Although I am not sure how it actually plays out in practice. I somehow doubt a tanker is giving way to a cruising sail vessel once it is underway.
- akira2501 8y ago
  > Although I am not sure how it actually plays out in practice. There are exceptions, in established shipping (and a few other types of) channels, the sailboat does _not_ have right of way. Also, when sailboats are using their motors for power they are considered motorboats and the special right of way no longer applies. It is also very rare to see a sailboat under sail power in a harbor and large commercial ships are always manually piloted in a harbor.
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  Might makes right. Sailing vessels only get right of way with small vessels. You can't sail your little 20 ft trailer sailer in front of a container ship and expect them to give way. I can't remember what the actual rule is, but I think it's somewhere around the 250 t mark that sailing boats no longer have right of way.
  - wefarrell 8y ago
    The exceptions have nothing to do with tonnage and everything to do with maneuverability, either due to the nature of work or the need to stay in a channel to prevent running aground. Of course you can’t expect a tanker to break/turn on a dime, but there’s nothing in the rules about tonnage.
  - swish_bob 8y ago
    The Rules of the Road as expressed by RYA instructors are "Give way to big ships". Is it big? If in doubt, yes ...
jkravitz61 8y ago
Completely agree. Quote from the article also kind of shows the founder isn't really correlated numbers properly. "Reading that more than 80% of goods are transported by sea, a light bulb went off, says Vollmer. 'We can have a very huge impact,' he remembers thinking." https://www.statista.com/statistics/264024/number-of-merchant-ships-worldwide-by-type/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/264024/number-of-merchan... shows that there are roughly 52,000 container ships in existence. 52,000 container ships moving 80% of the world's goods is something I assume people do not want to be automated and want to keep a very watchful eye on- notwithstanding all of the other issues in executing the idea.

madrox 8y ago

I get the impression you didn't actually read the article, as it addresses most of your questions.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
akira2501 8y ago
> as it addresses most of your questions. Vaguely suggesting that three different companies are separately attacking different parts of the problem in a very narrow area of the world with special permits and no collective breakdown of their efforts, their progress or their potential benefits didn't seem to effectively address anything nor does it support it's own headline. The headline was my main beef; but, we could get into the fact that the two most common maritime insurance claims are for weather damage and theft.. striking submerged objects is also a very common one, which is why harbors require skilled pilots with continual testing to bring boats in and out of those waters. I'm still very much suspicious of these "bolt-on" AI businesses and all the uncritical hype that surrounds them.

ehnto 8y ago

There are some ships, small sailing ships for example, that do not get picked up by radar. They often need to get radar reflectors fitted to be visible. You certainly wouldn't want to be on a sailing vessel while an automated cargo ship barrels down on you. Sailing ships get right of way to powered ships as well so detecting the difference between vessels is important and the automation would need to take that into account too. Although I am not sure how it actually plays out in practice. I somehow doubt a tanker is giving way to a cruising sail vessel once it is underway.

akira2501 8y ago
> Although I am not sure how it actually plays out in practice. There are exceptions, in established shipping (and a few other types of) channels, the sailboat does _not_ have right of way. Also, when sailboats are using their motors for power they are considered motorboats and the special right of way no longer applies. It is also very rare to see a sailboat under sail power in a harbor and large commercial ships are always manually piloted in a harbor.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
Might makes right. Sailing vessels only get right of way with small vessels. You can't sail your little 20 ft trailer sailer in front of a container ship and expect them to give way. I can't remember what the actual rule is, but I think it's somewhere around the 250 t mark that sailing boats no longer have right of way.
- wefarrell 8y ago
  The exceptions have nothing to do with tonnage and everything to do with maneuverability, either due to the nature of work or the need to stay in a channel to prevent running aground. Of course you can’t expect a tanker to break/turn on a dime, but there’s nothing in the rules about tonnage.
- swish_bob 8y ago
  The Rules of the Road as expressed by RYA instructors are "Give way to big ships". Is it big? If in doubt, yes ...

jkravitz61 8y ago

Completely agree. Quote from the article also kind of shows the founder isn't really correlated numbers properly. "Reading that more than 80% of goods are transported by sea, a light bulb went off, says Vollmer. 'We can have a very huge impact,' he remembers thinking." https://www.statista.com/statistics/264024/number-of-merchant-ships-worldwide-by-type/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/264024/number-of-merchan... shows that there are roughly 52,000 container ships in existence. 52,000 container ships moving 80% of the world's goods is something I assume people do not want to be automated and want to keep a very watchful eye on- notwithstanding all of the other issues in executing the idea.