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Ugh what a mess. It's not just that we are lighting money on fire, it's also that the reason for all of it is so pointless. Those poor furloughed workers are ha

Ugh what a mess. It's not just that we are lighting money on fire, it's also that the reason for all of it is so pointless. Those poor furloughed workers are having very real damage inflicted upon them. Damage that will take years to recover from if they ever do. It's cruel, its pointless, its stupid. At this point the shutdown has cost more than a wall ever would. Then of course there's the more disturbing thought that if I were a Russian asset looking to sow chaos and economic instability in the country, a shutdown (and a trade war, and alienating our allies abroad) would do a pretty good job...

nopriorarrests 8y ago
>Damage that will take years to recover from if they ever do. Can you please elaborate? From my limited knowledge, furloughed workers haven't got a paycheck (yet) for a one month. Is this kind of damage they will be recovering from for years?
- dragontamer 8y ago
  In the 2013 Shutdown, a number of government experiments (ie: Flu Experiments) were destroyed due to neglect from the shutdown. Which ended up having the worst Flu Vaccination success rate in the last 10 years or something (like a stupid low 30%). Etc. etc. Government projects are stopped during shutdowns. It literally takes years to recover from a shutdown (another year or two before Flu Vaccination experiments were back up and running at full potential)
  - nopriorarrests 8y ago
    OK, I get that some projects will have to restart from scratch, but this is not like furloughed workers have "some real damage inflicted upon them". It's just work, and their lives are more or less unaffected (with the exception of a single - so far - paycheck being delayed).
    - fzeroracer 8y ago
      A lot of people live paycheck to paycheck. To them, a single lost paycheck can mean not paying rent on time or not eating. Acting like this is not causing real damage is highly disingenuous.
    - squidfood 8y ago
      Our lab has been collecting an ecological time series every January for 35 years. Continuity is critical for monitoring change and the health of the population (under hunting, so there's an economic incentive). Now we have a permanent, unfillable gap. There are many such examples.
    - thelonelygod 8y ago
      I think your hugely underestimating the impact of a single paycheck. Some huge percentage of American's live paycheck to paycheck (78% according to career builder http://press.careerbuilder.com/2017-08-24-Living-Paycheck-to-Paycheck-is-a-Way-of-Life-for-Majority-of-U-S-Workers-According-to-New-CareerBuilder-Survey http://press.careerbuilder.com/2017-08-24-Living-Paycheck-to...). Missing that paycheck means potentially missing rent (which could get you evicted), having to decide between keeping the lights on or buying food. The more paychecks people miss the worse this is going to get for some people.
- vikingcaffiene 8y ago
  Well something like 50% of the country (I don't have the actual stats in front of me but I recall its more than half) lives paycheck to paycheck and has no savings. I remember what that was like before I got lucky enough to find a career in software development. Back then $100 was at TON of money (honestly I still think of it that way but I digress) and missing a paycheck would have been a disaster. One time my car broke down in the desert for instance and I had to leave it there for months so I could save up enough money to get it towed and repaired. It was an unexpected expense of a few hundred dollars but I remember breaking down in tears about it because I knew how much of a blow to my bottom line it was. I nearly lost my job because I had no way to get there, I had to pay parking fines for my stranded vehicle, I had to borrow money with no real way of paying it back. It was an unmitigated disaster that took me a long time to recover from. My point being, a lot of people live their days on a financial tight rope and an unexpected expense like missing a paycheck starts a cycle of debt that gets harder and harder to recover from. These furloughed workers deserve better.
dplgk 8y ago
You might be saying the shutdown cost more than the money currently requested amount for the wall but I can't agree that it costs more than a wall ever would.
- vikingcaffiene 8y ago
  That is in fact what I meant. Apologies for the confusing wording.

nopriorarrests 8y ago

>Damage that will take years to recover from if they ever do. Can you please elaborate? From my limited knowledge, furloughed workers haven't got a paycheck (yet) for a one month. Is this kind of damage they will be recovering from for years?

dragontamer 8y ago
In the 2013 Shutdown, a number of government experiments (ie: Flu Experiments) were destroyed due to neglect from the shutdown. Which ended up having the worst Flu Vaccination success rate in the last 10 years or something (like a stupid low 30%). Etc. etc. Government projects are stopped during shutdowns. It literally takes years to recover from a shutdown (another year or two before Flu Vaccination experiments were back up and running at full potential)
- nopriorarrests 8y ago
  OK, I get that some projects will have to restart from scratch, but this is not like furloughed workers have "some real damage inflicted upon them". It's just work, and their lives are more or less unaffected (with the exception of a single - so far - paycheck being delayed).
  - fzeroracer 8y ago
    A lot of people live paycheck to paycheck. To them, a single lost paycheck can mean not paying rent on time or not eating. Acting like this is not causing real damage is highly disingenuous.
  - squidfood 8y ago
    Our lab has been collecting an ecological time series every January for 35 years. Continuity is critical for monitoring change and the health of the population (under hunting, so there's an economic incentive). Now we have a permanent, unfillable gap. There are many such examples.
  - thelonelygod 8y ago
    I think your hugely underestimating the impact of a single paycheck. Some huge percentage of American's live paycheck to paycheck (78% according to career builder http://press.careerbuilder.com/2017-08-24-Living-Paycheck-to-Paycheck-is-a-Way-of-Life-for-Majority-of-U-S-Workers-According-to-New-CareerBuilder-Survey http://press.careerbuilder.com/2017-08-24-Living-Paycheck-to...). Missing that paycheck means potentially missing rent (which could get you evicted), having to decide between keeping the lights on or buying food. The more paychecks people miss the worse this is going to get for some people.
vikingcaffiene 8y ago
Well something like 50% of the country (I don't have the actual stats in front of me but I recall its more than half) lives paycheck to paycheck and has no savings. I remember what that was like before I got lucky enough to find a career in software development. Back then $100 was at TON of money (honestly I still think of it that way but I digress) and missing a paycheck would have been a disaster. One time my car broke down in the desert for instance and I had to leave it there for months so I could save up enough money to get it towed and repaired. It was an unexpected expense of a few hundred dollars but I remember breaking down in tears about it because I knew how much of a blow to my bottom line it was. I nearly lost my job because I had no way to get there, I had to pay parking fines for my stranded vehicle, I had to borrow money with no real way of paying it back. It was an unmitigated disaster that took me a long time to recover from. My point being, a lot of people live their days on a financial tight rope and an unexpected expense like missing a paycheck starts a cycle of debt that gets harder and harder to recover from. These furloughed workers deserve better.

dplgk 8y ago

You might be saying the shutdown cost more than the money currently requested amount for the wall but I can't agree that it costs more than a wall ever would.

vikingcaffiene 8y ago
That is in fact what I meant. Apologies for the confusing wording.