4 ms·

IIRC money has already been offered to boosting border security and have been turned down explicitly in desire to a wall. This is an uncomfortable situation tha

IIRC money has already been offered to boosting border security and have been turned down explicitly in desire to a wall. This is an uncomfortable situation that my first impression is to see it as a hostage situation, but I try to avoid such extreme descriptions. I'm struggling to find other, more neutral depictions of the situation, though.

manfredo 8y ago
And Republicans look at the same situation, and see Democrats standing in the way of one of 2016's biggest campaign promises. Opposition to the wall is commendable, but I think we're* playing a hand that is substantially disadvantageous. Republicans generally think less government is better, so they're a lot better equipped to endure a shutdown than Democrats. \* assuming you're also a Democrat.
- SolaceQuantum 8y ago
  And Republicans look at the same situation, and see Democrats standing in the way of one of 2016's biggest campaign promises. Didn't the shut down happen before the democrats had any power? I'm very confused. (Not in a sarcastic, caustic way. I'm actually genuinely confused why it is the democrats fault if the shut down occured before they had any power to stop anything.) (EDIT: I guess my policies align with more democrat??? views but I'm very much a voter on policies not party.)
  - jedberg 8y ago
    It did start before they had power. It's completely a political play by the GOP. The Senate literally passed the same budget bill last session that has now come back to their desk, but they refuse to vote on it. Yes, the Democrats could in theory stop this by allocating money for the wall, but much like giving your lunch money to the bully while he's beating you, it's not really a good idea.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - a_tractor 8y ago
    They still needed Democrat Senators in order to pass anything (60 votes).
  - manfredo 8y ago
    That asterisk is more just to clairify that using "we" makes my comment imply that you're a Democrat. Which may or may not be the case, hence the asterisk acknowledging that.
  - masonic 8y ago
    Unlike the Democrats under Obama, the Republicans never had a cloture majority in the Senate.
- TheCoelacanth 8y ago
  The campaign promise was that Mexico would pay for it. Asking for the US to fund a wall is blocking one of the biggest campaign promises.
matt4077 8y ago
A game of chicken, but with a wall.
thatoneuser 8y ago
The boost was a weak compromise that doesn't reflect the desires of the right. Build a wall and it will still be up when a new president comes in. If Trump settled for the boost, he'd be making a very weak compromise. Just because the dems offered something doesn't mean it was a good counter offer.
- SolaceQuantum 8y ago
  What are the desires of the right? Why do they desire a wall? Is it possible to make a compromise between the wall and the reasons why the wall is desired?
  - thatoneuser 8y ago
    I think they want a permanent and reliable way to minimize illegal immigration. I doubt there's much room for compromise, as there's been nothing proposed which would have the efficacy of a wall without a lot of downsides.
    - yellowapple 8y ago
      Unfortunately, given that the cartels have tunneling down to a science, I wouldn't really call the wall "reliable".
      - thatoneuser 8y ago
        Where's your source for that, keeping in mind overall volume and effecacy?
        yellowapple 8y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_tunnel#US-Mexico https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_tunnel#US-Mexico
      - dorchadas 8y ago
        And don't most undocumented immigrants first enter legally and then just don't leave? I know several Irish immigrants who've done that (though I bet nobody would call them 'illegal", which is what leads me to suspect there's something else behind all this). But, seriously, if you want to curb the problem, hit the people who hire them harder. Make it hurt. We can start with Nunes's family farm and Trump's properties. But, be prepared for the backlash when prices start increasing on everything...

manfredo 8y ago

And Republicans look at the same situation, and see Democrats standing in the way of one of 2016's biggest campaign promises. Opposition to the wall is commendable, but I think we're* playing a hand that is substantially disadvantageous. Republicans generally think less government is better, so they're a lot better equipped to endure a shutdown than Democrats. \* assuming you're also a Democrat.

SolaceQuantum 8y ago
And Republicans look at the same situation, and see Democrats standing in the way of one of 2016's biggest campaign promises. Didn't the shut down happen before the democrats had any power? I'm very confused. (Not in a sarcastic, caustic way. I'm actually genuinely confused why it is the democrats fault if the shut down occured before they had any power to stop anything.) (EDIT: I guess my policies align with more democrat??? views but I'm very much a voter on policies not party.)
- jedberg 8y ago
  It did start before they had power. It's completely a political play by the GOP. The Senate literally passed the same budget bill last session that has now come back to their desk, but they refuse to vote on it. Yes, the Democrats could in theory stop this by allocating money for the wall, but much like giving your lunch money to the bully while he's beating you, it's not really a good idea.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- a_tractor 8y ago
  They still needed Democrat Senators in order to pass anything (60 votes).
- manfredo 8y ago
  That asterisk is more just to clairify that using "we" makes my comment imply that you're a Democrat. Which may or may not be the case, hence the asterisk acknowledging that.
- masonic 8y ago
  Unlike the Democrats under Obama, the Republicans never had a cloture majority in the Senate.
TheCoelacanth 8y ago
The campaign promise was that Mexico would pay for it. Asking for the US to fund a wall is blocking one of the biggest campaign promises.

matt4077 8y ago

A game of chicken, but with a wall.

thatoneuser 8y ago

The boost was a weak compromise that doesn't reflect the desires of the right. Build a wall and it will still be up when a new president comes in. If Trump settled for the boost, he'd be making a very weak compromise. Just because the dems offered something doesn't mean it was a good counter offer.

SolaceQuantum 8y ago
What are the desires of the right? Why do they desire a wall? Is it possible to make a compromise between the wall and the reasons why the wall is desired?
- thatoneuser 8y ago
  I think they want a permanent and reliable way to minimize illegal immigration. I doubt there's much room for compromise, as there's been nothing proposed which would have the efficacy of a wall without a lot of downsides.
  - yellowapple 8y ago
    Unfortunately, given that the cartels have tunneling down to a science, I wouldn't really call the wall "reliable".
    - thatoneuser 8y ago
      Where's your source for that, keeping in mind overall volume and effecacy?
      - yellowapple 8y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_tunnel#US-Mexico https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_tunnel#US-Mexico
    - dorchadas 8y ago
      And don't most undocumented immigrants first enter legally and then just don't leave? I know several Irish immigrants who've done that (though I bet nobody would call them 'illegal", which is what leads me to suspect there's something else behind all this). But, seriously, if you want to curb the problem, hit the people who hire them harder. Make it hurt. We can start with Nunes's family farm and Trump's properties. But, be prepared for the backlash when prices start increasing on everything...