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Both branches of the government are holding the country hostage.

dragontamer 8y ago
Only one person veto'd the continuing resolution this time around. We know who to blame. If both sides walked away from the CR, then maybe you'd have a point. But only ONE side (of the three sides: House, Senate, and President) have walked away from the CR. Shutdown also started when the House was controlled by Republicans. The shutdown was 10-days old before Pelosi took the gavel and Democrats entered the house. Former speaker Ryan didn't feel like fixing the issue on his way out, so he left it to the Democrats. McConnell, while he's gone into hiding recently, managed to pass a bill in late December which could have prevented the shutdown (so McConnell barely gets a passing grade. A C-, he did something to stop the shutdown at least. But McConnell should show some leadership and rally the Senate to stop the shutdown today, just as he did back in December) I place the blame mostly on the President (for destroying the CR agreement McConnell passed), and somewhat on Mr. Ryan for walking away from the problem on the last 10 days of his Speakership.
- pastor_elm 8y ago
  Republicans passed a CR while they had the house but it was filibustered by Democrats in the Senate. So TWO sides have walked away actually.
  - dragontamer 8y ago
    > Republicans passed a CR while they had the house but it was filibustered by Democrats in the Senate https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/2018/12/19/senate-section/article/S7898-4 https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/2018/12/19/sen... The senate passed a CR on December 19th / 20th, which would have prevented the shutdown (at least until Feb 8). Period. The House failed to pass this CR. The measure passed with 71 Ayes. That's filibuster proof (and Veto-proof to boot), with numerous Democrats and Republicans agreeing together. Your history is straight up wrong.
    - pastor_elm 8y ago
      Nope. Check it out dawg. House passed it. Dem Senators scuttled it: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll472.xml http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll472.xml
      - dragontamer 8y ago
        That's not a clean CR and you know it wasn't. IE: The House capitulated to Trump's demands for a wall. $5 Billion on the wall, which is why it passed the House. The Senate bill I talked about before (with 71-votes for aye) was CLEAN, it was apolitical. It was simply keeping funding at the same levels as last year while the debate continued.
- kolbe 8y ago
  I'm not sure about that logic. It's just a consequence of the order of operations. If the process went Sentate->President->House for approval, the House would be the only one to not approve a bill that included wall funding.
  - dragontamer 8y ago
    There are five groups in play. The 115th Senate, the 116th Senate, the 115th House, the 116th House, and finally the President (who didn't change). The 115th Senate passed a CR. The 115th House failed to pass the CR. The 116th House passed a CR, that the 116th Senate is failing to pass. ------- In any case, the 115th Senate passed a CR with OVERWHELMING support: 71-Aye, 21 Nay, 8 not voting. That's both filibuster-proof AND veto-proof (if the bill were to come back). A huge portion of the country wants the CR to happen (ie: Keep government open while the debate happens). -------- Its hard to blame the 115th House (they didn't want to embarrass the President), or the 116th Senate (McConnell also doesn't want to embarrass the President). But it is clear that Trump's actions on the last week of December rallied the Republicans to support the wall more vigorously. But those 71 Senators who voted "Aye" for the late 2018 December CR : where are they now? They heard the President, and have decided to change their minds on the issue. ------ Ask yourself: why is the Dec 2018 CR dead? Who killed it? How can a bill with 71 Aye votes in the Senate eventually die?
  - jasonlotito 8y ago
    Good reason for that: Congress controls the purse. The House already passed legislation that all Senators in December passed, so most of the Senators still there voted in favor of the bill. Congress doesn't need the President's approval, either. They can override his veto. The Senate has the votes for that already based on votes for the same legislation already. The Senate could take it up for a vote again, and pass the bill they already passed, but they won't, purely for political games.
    - masonic 8y ago
      They aren't the same bill (115th vs 116th).
maneesh 8y ago
I didn't know there were only two branches of the government
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  There are three branches. There are only two that are involved in passing budgets.
FireBeyond 8y ago
How so? The populace elected a Democrat majority to the House. They don't want the Wall. They are under zero obligation to fund it, and it is not hostage-taking to do so.
murph-almighty 8y ago
I mean, if you count Mitch McConnell twice refusing to entertain spending bills that previously passed in the Senate, then yes, both branches are holding the government hostage.
- PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago
  And given that Mitch McConnell only has that ability by consent of the Senate. They could elect someone else in his place if they wanted to (Democrats might very well vote for a different Republican in such a case instead of voting party lines. it would only take a few Republicans siding with Democrats to replace Mitch).
JamesBarney 8y ago
Mind going into a little more detail? The house has passed a CR, last years senate has passed a CR. Mitch McConnell refuses to allow a vote on a CR until the president says he won't veto it. To me this issue seems like a pretty straightforward case of one branch holding the country hostage.
TomMckenny 8y ago
That would be more plausible if one side had not already claimed "credit" for the shut down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n-Y4TIgktg&feature=youtu.be&t=42 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n-Y4TIgktg&feature=youtu.be...
LyndsySimon 8y ago
This is exactly how the US federal government is designed to operate. The reason that it's such a harmful thing right now is because the federal government employs far more people than it was designed to employ.

Only one person veto'd the continuing resolution this time around. We know who to blame. If both sides walked away from the CR, then maybe you'd have a point. But only ONE side (of the three sides: House, Senate, and President) have walked away from the CR. Shutdown also started when the House was controlled by Republicans. The shutdown was 10-days old before Pelosi took the gavel and Democrats entered the house. Former speaker Ryan didn't feel like fixing the issue on his way out, so he left it to the Democrats. McConnell, while he's gone into hiding recently, managed to pass a bill in late December which could have prevented the shutdown (so McConnell barely gets a passing grade. A C-, he did something to stop the shutdown at least. But McConnell should show some leadership and rally the Senate to stop the shutdown today, just as he did back in December) I place the blame mostly on the President (for destroying the CR agreement McConnell passed), and somewhat on Mr. Ryan for walking away from the problem on the last 10 days of his Speakership.

pastor_elm 8y ago
Republicans passed a CR while they had the house but it was filibustered by Democrats in the Senate. So TWO sides have walked away actually.
- dragontamer 8y ago
  > Republicans passed a CR while they had the house but it was filibustered by Democrats in the Senate https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/2018/12/19/senate-section/article/S7898-4 https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/2018/12/19/sen... The senate passed a CR on December 19th / 20th, which would have prevented the shutdown (at least until Feb 8). Period. The House failed to pass this CR. The measure passed with 71 Ayes. That's filibuster proof (and Veto-proof to boot), with numerous Democrats and Republicans agreeing together. Your history is straight up wrong.
  - pastor_elm 8y ago
    Nope. Check it out dawg. House passed it. Dem Senators scuttled it: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll472.xml http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll472.xml
    - dragontamer 8y ago
      That's not a clean CR and you know it wasn't. IE: The House capitulated to Trump's demands for a wall. $5 Billion on the wall, which is why it passed the House. The Senate bill I talked about before (with 71-votes for aye) was CLEAN, it was apolitical. It was simply keeping funding at the same levels as last year while the debate continued.
kolbe 8y ago
I'm not sure about that logic. It's just a consequence of the order of operations. If the process went Sentate->President->House for approval, the House would be the only one to not approve a bill that included wall funding.
- dragontamer 8y ago
  There are five groups in play. The 115th Senate, the 116th Senate, the 115th House, the 116th House, and finally the President (who didn't change). The 115th Senate passed a CR. The 115th House failed to pass the CR. The 116th House passed a CR, that the 116th Senate is failing to pass. ------- In any case, the 115th Senate passed a CR with OVERWHELMING support: 71-Aye, 21 Nay, 8 not voting. That's both filibuster-proof AND veto-proof (if the bill were to come back). A huge portion of the country wants the CR to happen (ie: Keep government open while the debate happens). -------- Its hard to blame the 115th House (they didn't want to embarrass the President), or the 116th Senate (McConnell also doesn't want to embarrass the President). But it is clear that Trump's actions on the last week of December rallied the Republicans to support the wall more vigorously. But those 71 Senators who voted "Aye" for the late 2018 December CR : where are they now? They heard the President, and have decided to change their minds on the issue. ------ Ask yourself: why is the Dec 2018 CR dead? Who killed it? How can a bill with 71 Aye votes in the Senate eventually die?
- jasonlotito 8y ago
  Good reason for that: Congress controls the purse. The House already passed legislation that all Senators in December passed, so most of the Senators still there voted in favor of the bill. Congress doesn't need the President's approval, either. They can override his veto. The Senate has the votes for that already based on votes for the same legislation already. The Senate could take it up for a vote again, and pass the bill they already passed, but they won't, purely for political games.
  - masonic 8y ago
    They aren't the same bill (115th vs 116th).

maneesh 8y ago

I didn't know there were only two branches of the government

AnimalMuppet 8y ago
There are three branches. There are only two that are involved in passing budgets.

FireBeyond 8y ago

How so? The populace elected a Democrat majority to the House. They don't want the Wall. They are under zero obligation to fund it, and it is not hostage-taking to do so.

murph-almighty 8y ago

I mean, if you count Mitch McConnell twice refusing to entertain spending bills that previously passed in the Senate, then yes, both branches are holding the government hostage.

PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago
And given that Mitch McConnell only has that ability by consent of the Senate. They could elect someone else in his place if they wanted to (Democrats might very well vote for a different Republican in such a case instead of voting party lines. it would only take a few Republicans siding with Democrats to replace Mitch).

JamesBarney 8y ago

Mind going into a little more detail? The house has passed a CR, last years senate has passed a CR. Mitch McConnell refuses to allow a vote on a CR until the president says he won't veto it. To me this issue seems like a pretty straightforward case of one branch holding the country hostage.

TomMckenny 8y ago

That would be more plausible if one side had not already claimed "credit" for the shut down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n-Y4TIgktg&feature=youtu.be&t=42 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n-Y4TIgktg&feature=youtu.be...

LyndsySimon 8y ago

This is exactly how the US federal government is designed to operate. The reason that it's such a harmful thing right now is because the federal government employs far more people than it was designed to employ.