5 ms·

Are those "specific, long-considered reasons" revolve around your religious belief? If so, could you share them? I'm an atheist, and I'm looking to understand t

Are those "specific, long-considered reasons" revolve around your religious belief? If so, could you share them? I'm an atheist, and I'm looking to understand the mindset of people who are religious. It was never self-evident to me, and I'm curious why it may be to others.

lcall 8y ago
Thanks for asking, I hope I am not too slow to reply. The perhaps overly short version is: I have read and tested the Book of Mormon (a companion to the Bible) in the way it says to test it (http://www.mormon.org http://www.mormon.org), and a lifetime of experiences when I followed what I felt inside that I knew was right ("knew" as in, I know I love my wife, or what salt tastes like, but can't necessarily prove or explain it to someone who doesn't want anything to do with it), vs. when I did not do what I knew I should, and the results I found from those choices. Those things together have solidly convinced me by now (with some time lost & hard consequences from learning the hard way at times, and real benefits when I learned the easy way). Life is still challenging, but that is part of the educational program I believe we signed up for, which is worthwhile, and the tools are there for dealing with the hard things. About the Book of Mormon (and Bible): I have given them a lifetime of almost daily reading and contemplation (sometimes intelligently for me, sometimes not), plus have read some books and articles where people have commented in really fascinating ways about it (Daniel Peterson, Hugh Nibley, fairmormon.org which tries to answer critics, & others), as well as some anti-... material, and have thought about things from various angles ("what if it really...?"), and am satisfied that the debate is more for those who really like debate, while asking hard honest questions is a good thing because that is how we learn, and good things are there for those who seek, and I truly wish the best to all concerned, but ultimately, "proof" to satify everyone is always not going to happen in the way that they want it, and we have to seek according to our personal desires. The invitation from God to know for oneself, is there (as demonstrated by the Book of Mormon, its test, and many associated things). There is much more detail; I'm happy to share more or try to answer specific questions, whether here, or by posting online some notes I already made but should probably reformat & clean up somewhat. One may also email me if desired (EDIT: at luke425 <symbol> lukecall.net). (From a practical standpoint, I might check this thread or my email somewhere between every few hours and every few days, but am happy to continue the conversation in that way, and after several blank days would assume this thread is complete. Suggestions always welcome. :)
- MarsAscendant 8y ago
  Let me see if I understand you correctly... Your conviction comes from the fact that you've read, almost daily, and contemplated over the Bible and the Book of Mormons, as well as read a good number of comments for and arguments against your position. You also derive it from your life experiences, particularly those where you have either done or not done what you thought you were supposed to/felt good about doing. Am I getting this right? Were there any particular experiences or turning points when you may thought "Hm. Is that what my life is about?" or "Ah-ha! That is what I'm supposed to do!"?
  - lcall 8y ago
    That is a decent summary of what I wrote, but there is much missing. It deserves, and I want to give you, a better than off-the-cuff answer (mostly posted at my web site) but with my schedule in the next few days it might be Tuesday or Wednesday when I can post again here. (I don't remember how long these discussions allow follow-up posts, but my email noted earlier is a fallback.)
    - lcall 8y ago
      Made good progress. Looking like 1, maybe 2 more days.
  - lcall 8y ago
    Yes. One quick note: "Book of Mormon" (aka BoM or BofM) is singular: Mormon is the name of an ancient prophet/writer, not the name of our Church. I posted material at http://lukecall.net http://lukecall.net (under "why I believe"), but the most direct answer to your questions might be at http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854605861.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854605861.html and pages to which it links. Honest questions & feedback are always welcome. (The web site is generated from my note-taking program. It is intended to be very skimmable, where one can click on links if they are interesting, otherwise one doesn't see the details. There can always be more editing, but hopefully it is useful. Maybe in the future some levels should have a summary document of the contents, so you don't have to click around as much to read it in big chunks. Only part of the code to do that is written--to generate single-document outlines from my note-taking program, but not yet to include them in the web site.)

lcall 8y ago

Thanks for asking, I hope I am not too slow to reply. The perhaps overly short version is: I have read and tested the Book of Mormon (a companion to the Bible) in the way it says to test it (http://www.mormon.org http://www.mormon.org), and a lifetime of experiences when I followed what I felt inside that I knew was right ("knew" as in, I know I love my wife, or what salt tastes like, but can't necessarily prove or explain it to someone who doesn't want anything to do with it), vs. when I did not do what I knew I should, and the results I found from those choices. Those things together have solidly convinced me by now (with some time lost & hard consequences from learning the hard way at times, and real benefits when I learned the easy way). Life is still challenging, but that is part of the educational program I believe we signed up for, which is worthwhile, and the tools are there for dealing with the hard things. About the Book of Mormon (and Bible): I have given them a lifetime of almost daily reading and contemplation (sometimes intelligently for me, sometimes not), plus have read some books and articles where people have commented in really fascinating ways about it (Daniel Peterson, Hugh Nibley, fairmormon.org which tries to answer critics, & others), as well as some anti-... material, and have thought about things from various angles ("what if it really...?"), and am satisfied that the debate is more for those who really like debate, while asking hard honest questions is a good thing because that is how we learn, and good things are there for those who seek, and I truly wish the best to all concerned, but ultimately, "proof" to satify everyone is always not going to happen in the way that they want it, and we have to seek according to our personal desires. The invitation from God to know for oneself, is there (as demonstrated by the Book of Mormon, its test, and many associated things). There is much more detail; I'm happy to share more or try to answer specific questions, whether here, or by posting online some notes I already made but should probably reformat & clean up somewhat. One may also email me if desired (EDIT: at luke425 <symbol> lukecall.net). (From a practical standpoint, I might check this thread or my email somewhere between every few hours and every few days, but am happy to continue the conversation in that way, and after several blank days would assume this thread is complete. Suggestions always welcome. :)

MarsAscendant 8y ago
Let me see if I understand you correctly... Your conviction comes from the fact that you've read, almost daily, and contemplated over the Bible and the Book of Mormons, as well as read a good number of comments for and arguments against your position. You also derive it from your life experiences, particularly those where you have either done or not done what you thought you were supposed to/felt good about doing. Am I getting this right? Were there any particular experiences or turning points when you may thought "Hm. Is that what my life is about?" or "Ah-ha! That is what I'm supposed to do!"?
- lcall 8y ago
  That is a decent summary of what I wrote, but there is much missing. It deserves, and I want to give you, a better than off-the-cuff answer (mostly posted at my web site) but with my schedule in the next few days it might be Tuesday or Wednesday when I can post again here. (I don't remember how long these discussions allow follow-up posts, but my email noted earlier is a fallback.)
  - lcall 8y ago
    Made good progress. Looking like 1, maybe 2 more days.
- lcall 8y ago
  Yes. One quick note: "Book of Mormon" (aka BoM or BofM) is singular: Mormon is the name of an ancient prophet/writer, not the name of our Church. I posted material at http://lukecall.net http://lukecall.net (under "why I believe"), but the most direct answer to your questions might be at http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854605861.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854605861.html and pages to which it links. Honest questions & feedback are always welcome. (The web site is generated from my note-taking program. It is intended to be very skimmable, where one can click on links if they are interesting, otherwise one doesn't see the details. There can always be more editing, but hopefully it is useful. Maybe in the future some levels should have a summary document of the contents, so you don't have to click around as much to read it in big chunks. Only part of the code to do that is written--to generate single-document outlines from my note-taking program, but not yet to include them in the web site.)