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Luckily we are much better equipped to deal with any effect of change in climate today than we used to be when we also had even warmer climate. In fact that's
by ThomPete 8y ago
Luckily we are much better equipped to deal with any effect of change in climate today than we used to be when we also had even warmer climate.
In fact that's one of the things we've been really good at learning to deal with. Natures tendency to throw us all sorts of unexpected events.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoThat's true, 125,000 years ago we weren't good at this. But then again, there weren't so many of us either.
- asabjorn 8y agoClimate change has affected society for as long as we have records, and even before that. Drought overthrew pharaos [1], the Romans experienced a little ice age that contributed to their fall [2] in the 500s, Mayans form drought in the 1100s [3], and climate affected Chinese dynasties [5]. Even some of the expansions and contractions of viking migratory behavior was climate related. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/10/17/climate-change-sparked-revolts-in-ancient-egypt-study-says/?utm_term=.ce8ea5379277 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/20... [2] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-climate-change-and-disease-helped-fall-rome-180967591/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-climate-ch... [3] https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/11/121109-maya-civilization-climate-change-belize-science/ https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/11/121109-maya... [4] https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2017/09/26/climate-change-some-lessons-from-the-vikings/ https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2017/09/26/climate-change-some... [5] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/monsoon-climate-change-chinese/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/monsoon-climate-c...
- craftyguy 8y agoIn none of those cases were the effects global and permanent.
- mamon 8y agoI get the "global" part, but what makes you think the current climate change will be permanent?
- 24gttghh 8y agoPermanent in terms of all the people who otherwise would remain alive, who instead will be dead.
- ThomPete 8y agoClimate change doesn't affect the world the same way globally and never have.
- craftyguy 8y ago[citation needed, because fossil records seriously conflict with your statement]
- xapata 8y agoSo, the evidence suggests climate change causes societal collapse?
- asabjorn 8y agoThe evidence suggests that the parent commenter was wrong when indicating that the last significant climate change happened 125000 years ago.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoNo, the last time this earth was this hot was that long ago.
- ThomPete 8y agoAnd yet life managed to persist despite being much more primitive.
- senorjazz 8y agoyes "life" did. Lots didn't. If climate change ends up being the worst end of that reported of what "might" happen. Life would still survive. Millions / billions of humans will not.
- ThomPete 8y agoPrimitive life. We are much better equipped to deal with it, that's the point. Again what are you basing the claims of millions/billions on cause it's certainly not science?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- plink 8y agoPrecisely. I couldn't agree with your point more wholeheartedly. Why, only last winter I solved my own personal encounter with climate change by playing the travel-insurance card when nature couldn't be counted on to guarantee my ski vacation. We as a society should buck up and similarly snap our fingers at this little bump in our existence. Show some fortitude, humans! Less hand wringing and more hand waving!
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoAnd there are all small things. We have never had this much heat in the neolithic era. https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/last-time-earth-was-hot-hippos-lived-britain-s-130000-years-ago/ https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/last-time-eart... https://www.inquisitr.com/5111067/what-the-earth-was-like-the-last-time-it-was-this-hot/ https://www.inquisitr.com/5111067/what-the-earth-was-like-th... https://mashable.com/article/earth-warmest-temperatures-climate-change/#hKNvad3q2iqV https://mashable.com/article/earth-warmest-temperatures-clim...
- ThomPete 8y agoIn much more primitive societies. Again what scientifically demonstrated (not speculated) consequences of climate change are you worried we can't deal with when it happens?
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoI think that millions of people running out of water due to glaciers disappearing could be a bit of an issue that will, at the very least cause massive social problems. How much of North America is reliant on glacier waters?
- ThomPete 8y agoAnd this has been scientifically demonstrated or are you speculating? When will this happen?
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoYes, the glaciers are disappearing. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-rocky-mountains-largest-glaciers-are-melting-with-little-fanfare/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-rocky-mountai... https://abcnews.go.com/International/canadas-glaciers-shrink-70-percent-study/story?id=30140031 https://abcnews.go.com/International/canadas-glaciers-shrink... https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/big-thaw/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warmin... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/may/11/us-glacier-national-park-is-losing-its-glaciers-with-just-26-of-150-left https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/may/11/us-glaci... https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/earth-ice-melting-glaciers-disappearing-glacier-los-glaciares-national-park-us-geological-survey-a7730466.html https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/earth-ice-melting-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850
- eecc 8y agoCan you provide evidence to this claim? How exactly are we equipped to deal with what in particular, to what extent and for how long? Such dismissive optimism needs to be either justified or smothered, unless you forgot a /s of course
- ThomPete 8y agoCan you give me an example of a scientifically demonstrated (not just speculated) consequence that we don't know how to deal with?
- michaelchisari 8y agoMass migration and civil war.
- ThomPete 8y agoWe have that throughout history and even today and yet we are still around. So again if that is what we are talking about I really don't see what exactly I should be so worried about.
- dwaltrip 8y agoYou don't think we should try to avoid situations that will cause mass displacement and war, potentially on an unprecedented scale?
- ThomPete 8y agoYes and the best way to do that is to make poor nations richer which requires growth which will require more energy and thus more emission of CO2.
- mdpopescu 8y agoYeah, we've only been dealing with those for 10,000 years. /s
- tzs 8y agoAre we? First, weren't those past changes much slower, thus giving much more time to adapt? Second, wasn't the world much more sparsely populated, meaning that if your area's ecosystem changed it was often feasible to migrate to a most hospitable currently unoccupied area? Third, if they did migrate to someplace that was already occupied and those already there objected, nobody had weapons of mass destruction. At worst, one group would genocide the other, but it wouldn't spread beyond the disputants. If a climate change induced resource problem leads to war in our times there are weapons of mass destruction, and those wars could be very devastating and draw in others.
- asabjorn 8y agoThe climate change that contributed to the fall of the Roman empire was relatively quick [1]. [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-climate-change-and-disease-helped-fall-rome-180967591/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-climate-ch...
- ThomPete 8y agoI will also ask you to provide an example of a scientifically demonstrated consequence of climate change we don't know how to deal with. Climate change is a fact of life and we have always had to deal with it. Nature doesn't give us an environment we make dangerous, nature gives us a dangerous environment we then make safe. I am personally more concerned about a lot of other things before climate change even enters my list.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago> I will also ask you to provide an example of a scientifically demonstrated consequence of climate change we don't know how to deal with. You'll have to define "deal with". How many billions dead is a success?
- titzer 8y agoIt's gonna be a bitch not getting anything to eat because Earth won't grow our crops anymore because we done fucked up all of its life support systems and it's just too damn hot outside.
- BLKNSLVR 8y agoHumanity has always been well equipped to hide from difficult questions.
- snowwrestler 8y agoThe migration of a few thousand people from Central America to the U.S. border was treated like a national crisis last year. Imagine what the social and political reaction is going to be when millions flee the equatorial regions due to heat and sea level rise.
- state_less 8y agolast year?
- nostrademons 8y agoTo be fair, the migration of a few thousand people was treated like a national crisis because it behooves both the people in power and the news media for the world to perpetually be in a state of crisis.
- BLKNSLVR 8y agoSeemingly with the exception of if it's a position supported by science. :)
- girzel 8y agoIf we're so good at dealing with things -- which I think it's fairly obvious we aren't -- why don't we just "deal with" carbon emissions and our effects on the environment? Why opt for the more difficult to deal with scenario?
- ThomPete 8y agoThats like saying. If we are fairly good at dealing with a broken leg why don't we just deal with cancer. I don't even know where to start.
- BLKNSLVR 8y agoThat's YOUR argument. Climate Change is cancer, and localised weather-based or natural disasters are broken legs. In fact that's one of the things we've been really good at learning to deal with. Natures tendency to throw us all sorts of unexpected events. Unexpected events within a relatively stable norm that humans have been living within for thousands of years. Climate change has the distinct potential to break out of those norms.
- ThomPete 8y agoNo that's actually your argument. My argument is that we have become better and better at dealing with the potential consequences of climate change.
- baxtr 8y agoThat’s definitely not wrong. But at what cost?
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y agoCan you provide some examples where you believe we have become better at dealing with the potential consequences of climate change.
- 8y ago