6 ms·

> There is also a healthy debate over the degree to which personality disorders represent a true disorder, or just an extreme personality on the edges of normal

> There is also a healthy debate over the degree to which personality disorders represent a true disorder, or just an extreme personality on the edges of normal distribution. I'm not sure that's a meaningful distinction. That is to say, a "disorder" should be something that interferes with your ability to function and flourish in a normal environment. I'm not sure it's meaningful to draw a distinction between people who absolutely cannot function and people who merely effectively cannot function. Just because your ankle is sprained and not broken doesn't mean you don't need medical care or that you should be walking.

kofejnik 8y ago
Homosexuality was considered a disorder until fairly recently
- DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
  I always wonders who benefits from these treatments other then the doctors and scientist lining their pockets, along with academics circle-jerking their way to juicy funding. Labels like narcissism are just a way to tell a whole group of people that they're ill. In fact it's a personality trait that according to "research" is rampant in management professions. There are so many crappy online tests that measure your tendency to "narcissism" (and any extroverted high-achiever might fall into their trap) ... but if you look at the research it gets flimsy very quickly. They quickly talk about a "spectrum" indicating they have no fucking idea what they're doing. A bit like the current tendency to over diagnose kids on the autistic spectrum. Flimsy jargon like "spectrum" is excellent precondition for whole industries to emerge that can line their pockets. imvho psychology / psychiatry must be one of the most fraudulent sciences of our times (check out all the research that was done by these crooks to devise better methods of interrogation and soft torture) ... something, something "medical industrial complex". EDIT: what @zamalek describes above "My therapist has explained the biggest issue about PDs: the disorders make a person extremely unlikely to seek out help," sounds like the perfect cover for a fraudulent practice. Such language IMO is outright dangerous to anyone who may be diagnosed without their consent (e.g. by SJW's or society in general).
- da_chicken 8y ago
  Yes, so was gender identity disorder (i.e., transgender) which was often classified with pedophillia or body integrity disorder. There is no frame of reference for psychology to use except society and general assessments of normality and expected behavior. That mean the only method to determine whether or not something is a disorder at all is a) determine the impact of the condition on the individual's ability to function, and b) determine whether or not the condition results in harm to the individual or others. These are both very subjective measures. The fact that we think we're more right today than we were yesterday is really pretty immaterial.
drb91 8y ago
Well, if functioning and fluorishing is defined by conformity, this doesn’t seem very meaningful. Some personality disorders allow a high functioning career and social life. To be clear I am trying to illustrate the idea that a disorder seems inherently devilish to define.
- DanBC 8y ago
  > Some personality disorders allow a high functioning career and social life. No, they don't, because built into the definition of disorder is the impact it has one someone's life.
  - toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
    Which is a bit of an issue isn’t it. Is Shkreli in Cluster B? Probably, and now he has the impact on his life to prove it. So before that, when he was just incredibly successful, had no criminal record, and seemed able to function at a high level did he have the same disorder? If outcomes represent a diagnostic criteria then it reveals a weakness in understanding or even defining the disorder in question. It’s important to distinguish between diagnostic criteria, and the disorder itself, if they are actually disorders.
  - drb91 8y ago
    Ok... so most mental “disorders” with high functioning people aren’t actually disorders? The definition seems useless without meaning simply “nonconforming”.
- jacobolus 8y ago
  Years ago I dated a woman with a “high functioning” career and from outside apparently normal social life who in retrospect was clearly BPD. She was very good at hiding her feelings during most casual interactions, and was clever and generous and fun to talk to when calm, but had almost a second personality which would come out when she became even slightly stressed which was bitter and entirely self-centered and extremely manipulative. She was at that stage of her life completely incapable of maintaining a close personal relationship, and she was frequently (on a daily basis) under extreme stress about perceived grievous slights from everyone around her that were to an outside observer inconsequential mistakes or misunderstandings, and she was harboring numerous long-term grudges. It seemed like she knew she had a problem, and during times where she wasn’t stressed out would regret her outbursts and seemed to wish she generally had better emotional control. She seemed generally pretty miserable about it, but maybe I was projecting based on the way her problems made me feel.

kofejnik 8y ago

Homosexuality was considered a disorder until fairly recently

DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
I always wonders who benefits from these treatments other then the doctors and scientist lining their pockets, along with academics circle-jerking their way to juicy funding. Labels like narcissism are just a way to tell a whole group of people that they're ill. In fact it's a personality trait that according to "research" is rampant in management professions. There are so many crappy online tests that measure your tendency to "narcissism" (and any extroverted high-achiever might fall into their trap) ... but if you look at the research it gets flimsy very quickly. They quickly talk about a "spectrum" indicating they have no fucking idea what they're doing. A bit like the current tendency to over diagnose kids on the autistic spectrum. Flimsy jargon like "spectrum" is excellent precondition for whole industries to emerge that can line their pockets. imvho psychology / psychiatry must be one of the most fraudulent sciences of our times (check out all the research that was done by these crooks to devise better methods of interrogation and soft torture) ... something, something "medical industrial complex". EDIT: what @zamalek describes above "My therapist has explained the biggest issue about PDs: the disorders make a person extremely unlikely to seek out help," sounds like the perfect cover for a fraudulent practice. Such language IMO is outright dangerous to anyone who may be diagnosed without their consent (e.g. by SJW's or society in general).
da_chicken 8y ago
Yes, so was gender identity disorder (i.e., transgender) which was often classified with pedophillia or body integrity disorder. There is no frame of reference for psychology to use except society and general assessments of normality and expected behavior. That mean the only method to determine whether or not something is a disorder at all is a) determine the impact of the condition on the individual's ability to function, and b) determine whether or not the condition results in harm to the individual or others. These are both very subjective measures. The fact that we think we're more right today than we were yesterday is really pretty immaterial.

drb91 8y ago

Well, if functioning and fluorishing is defined by conformity, this doesn’t seem very meaningful. Some personality disorders allow a high functioning career and social life. To be clear I am trying to illustrate the idea that a disorder seems inherently devilish to define.

DanBC 8y ago
> Some personality disorders allow a high functioning career and social life. No, they don't, because built into the definition of disorder is the impact it has one someone's life.
- toufiqbarhamov 8y ago
  Which is a bit of an issue isn’t it. Is Shkreli in Cluster B? Probably, and now he has the impact on his life to prove it. So before that, when he was just incredibly successful, had no criminal record, and seemed able to function at a high level did he have the same disorder? If outcomes represent a diagnostic criteria then it reveals a weakness in understanding or even defining the disorder in question. It’s important to distinguish between diagnostic criteria, and the disorder itself, if they are actually disorders.
- drb91 8y ago
  Ok... so most mental “disorders” with high functioning people aren’t actually disorders? The definition seems useless without meaning simply “nonconforming”.
jacobolus 8y ago
Years ago I dated a woman with a “high functioning” career and from outside apparently normal social life who in retrospect was clearly BPD. She was very good at hiding her feelings during most casual interactions, and was clever and generous and fun to talk to when calm, but had almost a second personality which would come out when she became even slightly stressed which was bitter and entirely self-centered and extremely manipulative. She was at that stage of her life completely incapable of maintaining a close personal relationship, and she was frequently (on a daily basis) under extreme stress about perceived grievous slights from everyone around her that were to an outside observer inconsequential mistakes or misunderstandings, and she was harboring numerous long-term grudges. It seemed like she knew she had a problem, and during times where she wasn’t stressed out would regret her outbursts and seemed to wish she generally had better emotional control. She seemed generally pretty miserable about it, but maybe I was projecting based on the way her problems made me feel.