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Glaciers are retreating. Millions rely on their water
- baxtr 8y agoMan, it is frightening to see how fast things are changing. I wonder if and how through things like that whole ecosystems will collapse sooner or later leading, amongst other things, to mass-migration Side note: very nice and engaging format, just right: playful but not too fancy
- zepearl 8y ago"But it is only on the brink that people find the will to change. Only at the precipice do we evolve." Quote from the movie/film "The day the earth stood still". (don't know if it's copied from the older film or some book etc...) I did quite like that film (it was "ok", kind of advanced-mediocre) - at a certain point I was reaaaally hoping that somebody would state something like that, and a few minutes/seconds later they did => it made me incredibly happy :)
- ThomPete 8y agoLuckily we are much better equipped to deal with any effect of change in climate today than we used to be when we also had even warmer climate. In fact that's one of the things we've been really good at learning to deal with. Natures tendency to throw us all sorts of unexpected events.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoThat's true, 125,000 years ago we weren't good at this. But then again, there weren't so many of us either.
- asabjorn 8y agoClimate change has affected society for as long as we have records, and even before that. Drought overthrew pharaos [1], the Romans experienced a little ice age that contributed to their fall [2] in the 500s, Mayans form drought in the 1100s [3], and climate affected Chinese dynasties [5]. Even some of the expansions and contractions of viking migratory behavior was climate related. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/10/17/climate-change-sparked-revolts-in-ancient-egypt-study-says/?utm_term=.ce8ea5379277 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/20... [2] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-climate-change-and-disease-helped-fall-rome-180967591/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-climate-ch... [3] https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/11/121109-maya-civilization-climate-change-belize-science/ https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/11/121109-maya... [4] https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2017/09/26/climate-change-some-lessons-from-the-vikings/ https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2017/09/26/climate-change-some... [5] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/monsoon-climate-change-chinese/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/monsoon-climate-c...
- craftyguy 8y agoIn none of those cases were the effects global and permanent.
- mamon 8y agoI get the "global" part, but what makes you think the current climate change will be permanent?
- 24gttghh 8y agoPermanent in terms of all the people who otherwise would remain alive, who instead will be dead.
- ThomPete 8y agoClimate change doesn't affect the world the same way globally and never have.
- craftyguy 8y ago[citation needed, because fossil records seriously conflict with your statement]
- xapata 8y agoSo, the evidence suggests climate change causes societal collapse?
- asabjorn 8y agoThe evidence suggests that the parent commenter was wrong when indicating that the last significant climate change happened 125000 years ago.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoNo, the last time this earth was this hot was that long ago.
- eecc 8y agoCan you provide evidence to this claim? How exactly are we equipped to deal with what in particular, to what extent and for how long? Such dismissive optimism needs to be either justified or smothered, unless you forgot a /s of course
- ThomPete 8y agoCan you give me an example of a scientifically demonstrated (not just speculated) consequence that we don't know how to deal with?
- michaelchisari 8y agoMass migration and civil war.
- ThomPete 8y agoWe have that throughout history and even today and yet we are still around. So again if that is what we are talking about I really don't see what exactly I should be so worried about.
- dwaltrip 8y agoYou don't think we should try to avoid situations that will cause mass displacement and war, potentially on an unprecedented scale?
- ThomPete 8y agoYes and the best way to do that is to make poor nations richer which requires growth which will require more energy and thus more emission of CO2.
- mdpopescu 8y agoYeah, we've only been dealing with those for 10,000 years. /s
- tzs 8y agoAre we? First, weren't those past changes much slower, thus giving much more time to adapt? Second, wasn't the world much more sparsely populated, meaning that if your area's ecosystem changed it was often feasible to migrate to a most hospitable currently unoccupied area? Third, if they did migrate to someplace that was already occupied and those already there objected, nobody had weapons of mass destruction. At worst, one group would genocide the other, but it wouldn't spread beyond the disputants. If a climate change induced resource problem leads to war in our times there are weapons of mass destruction, and those wars could be very devastating and draw in others.
- asabjorn 8y agoThe climate change that contributed to the fall of the Roman empire was relatively quick [1]. [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-climate-change-and-disease-helped-fall-rome-180967591/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-climate-ch...
- ThomPete 8y agoI will also ask you to provide an example of a scientifically demonstrated consequence of climate change we don't know how to deal with. Climate change is a fact of life and we have always had to deal with it. Nature doesn't give us an environment we make dangerous, nature gives us a dangerous environment we then make safe. I am personally more concerned about a lot of other things before climate change even enters my list.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago> I will also ask you to provide an example of a scientifically demonstrated consequence of climate change we don't know how to deal with. You'll have to define "deal with". How many billions dead is a success?
- titzer 8y agoIt's gonna be a bitch not getting anything to eat because Earth won't grow our crops anymore because we done fucked up all of its life support systems and it's just too damn hot outside.
- BLKNSLVR 8y agoHumanity has always been well equipped to hide from difficult questions.
- snowwrestler 8y agoThe migration of a few thousand people from Central America to the U.S. border was treated like a national crisis last year. Imagine what the social and political reaction is going to be when millions flee the equatorial regions due to heat and sea level rise.
- state_less 8y agolast year?
- nostrademons 8y agoTo be fair, the migration of a few thousand people was treated like a national crisis because it behooves both the people in power and the news media for the world to perpetually be in a state of crisis.
- BLKNSLVR 8y agoSeemingly with the exception of if it's a position supported by science. :)
- girzel 8y agoIf we're so good at dealing with things -- which I think it's fairly obvious we aren't -- why don't we just "deal with" carbon emissions and our effects on the environment? Why opt for the more difficult to deal with scenario?
- ThomPete 8y agoThats like saying. If we are fairly good at dealing with a broken leg why don't we just deal with cancer. I don't even know where to start.
- BLKNSLVR 8y agoThat's YOUR argument. Climate Change is cancer, and localised weather-based or natural disasters are broken legs. In fact that's one of the things we've been really good at learning to deal with. Natures tendency to throw us all sorts of unexpected events. Unexpected events within a relatively stable norm that humans have been living within for thousands of years. Climate change has the distinct potential to break out of those norms.
- ThomPete 8y agoNo that's actually your argument. My argument is that we have become better and better at dealing with the potential consequences of climate change.
- baxtr 8y agoThat’s definitely not wrong. But at what cost?
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y agoCan you provide some examples where you believe we have become better at dealing with the potential consequences of climate change.
- 8y ago
- akshayB 8y agoThis is not just happening in Central Asia but a global phenomenon. I have visited Athabasca Glacier part of the Columbia Icefields after long time and you can see retreat which is happening at an alarming rate.
- JimboOmega 8y agoI visited that very glacier with my father. The historic extent of the glacier is clearly marked. That evening he still insisted global warming was made up for a political agenda, simply natural variation, etc. There really isn't much you can do to convince some people. Also FWIW, I think the bigger concern in Central Asia is water security. I don't think Canadians will be in as difficult a position as those in Central Asia without them.
- folkrav 8y ago"Canada has 7% of the world's renewable fresh water", but the 85% of the population that lives close to the south border doesn't have access to this water as it mostly flows northwards towards the Arctic Ocean. [1] The rest is underground, glacier water or sitting in lakes. It isn't as bad as Central Asia as far as I know, but it's still not great. [1] https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/water-overview/frequently-asked-questions.html https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services...
- Simon_says 8y agoCalm your tits. Everything is going to be fine.
- snowwrestler 8y agoThe global retreat of mountain glaciers has been well documented by climbers as well as geologists, and is one of the most obvious and easily understood confirmations that the average temperature of the lower atmosphere is indeed increasing.
- phkahler 8y agoThey've been retreating for 15,000 years or more. At what point do we say "this is where they should stop"? The high water mark for inter-glacial sea level is quite a bit higher that it is now: https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/climate-change/changing-ice/high-water-mark https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/climate-change/changing-ice...
- thinkcontext 8y agoSpeed matters. It makes a big difference if a glacier field providing a large chunk of water for your city disappears over the course of 50 years or 500 years.
- RobLach 8y ago“I’ve been dying since I was 20 so what makes it special now that I have cancer”
- ThomPete 8y ago50 years is still plenty of time to deal with that especially in todays society.
- saagarjha 8y agoThat doesn't preclude us from starting to deal with it now.
- ThomPete 8y agoDealing with what and how and at what price? Should we stop poor countries from using fossil fuels which is what they primarily are using right now?
- saagarjha 8y ago> Should we stop poor countries from using fossil fuels which is what they primarily are using right now? I mean, that would one thing we could work on.
- mapt 8y agoAdapting to this optimally is probably going to involve waves of dam construction; Not for hydroelectric specifically (though China sees Tibetan hydro as a huge opportunity), but just to ensure that there's something left of the monsoon in the dry season. Adapting to this through an uncoordinated approach of sociological gradient descent is just going to see tons and tons of wells being dug, in a race for the deeper acquifer.
- njarboe 8y agoCalifornia might have a similar problem if the Sierra precipitation comes more as rain than snowpack in the future. One possible solution is to re-inject water into aquifers in high precip years and then pump it out during droughts. If it can be done politically (the tech already exists) then this is even better than dams for water storage as evaporation doesn't happen. Currently in California people can pump as much water as they can from wells with no restriction. Some changes in the works, but until the person who pumps it in gets to pump it out or sell it, this idea will not work.