4 ms·

Which non-corrupt city and state did you move to?

mikestew 8y ago
Are you asking in good faith, or as a setup to respond how parent's choice is just as corrupt? I ask because parent didn't say they moved to a non-corrupt jurisdiction, they just said they moved away from Chicago. Pedantry aside, if parent's answer is "someplace other than Chicago", then they're probably better off. That place has been a cesspool of corruption, both state and city, since I was a kid; and I'm not young.
- behringer 8y ago
  I've been all over. They're all corrupt.
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    I've been all over as well. You are correct, they all are corrupt. That said, we generally don't care about the corruption in other places. For instance, I recently learned that Pennsylvania has a problem with corrupt DA's the same as Wisconsin does. Now I know. Now I lament the situation of people in Pennsylvania. But all that said, I'm from Wisconsin, so I'm a little more concerned about the bent DA's we have here. Maybe the original comment was posted by someone from Chicago? In which case, why would he care about corruption elsewhere? For instance, why would he care that people in Wisconsin are out 4 to 5 billion bucks for a Foxconn factory? Yes, he may lament our situation. He might even get a little upset by it when he hears about it on the news... but in the end, Chicago is his concern, not some local-yokels in up in Fond du Lac, Cambria or Superior. Whereas for me, it's infuriating maybe in the same way that all the parking tickets people are talking about seem to infuriate people from Chicago.
    - moorhosj 8y ago
      The point is that moving from one place because of corruption won't necessarily save you from corruption.
      - lotsofpulp 8y ago
        Clearly a false point considering how many people immigrate around the world from countries with high corruption to low corruption. There are definitely places in the US where you can enjoy a higher standard of living than Chicago due to local and state government being less corrupt. And it’s going to get worse. You would be going against basic arithmetic to say the cash flow situations of states like IL/NJ/CT/KY won’t lead to more and more corruption, barring any unforeseen wealth from natural resources bailing them out.
        bilbo0s 8y ago
        Add WI and KS to the list. (Although I suppose Kansas is already long part the "getting worse" part. They've got serious financial issues.) That said, I do think that moorhosj is right. Moving somewhere and expecting there to be no corruption is a bit of a fool's errand. I could move away from Wisconsin. Lots of people do, even a lot of childhood friends. Here's the thing though, there really is no other place that will allow me completely corruption free living. Maybe they don't steal as much from you when you're in Nebraska or Washington state as they do when you're in Wisconsin, but I find it difficult to believe that no corruption at all is happening in other places. (And the laments of my childhood friends who have moved, kind of validate that view for me.)
        moorhosj 8y ago
        ==There are definitely places in the US where you can enjoy a higher standard of living than Chicago due to local and state government being less corrupt.== Please name the cities with comparable career opportunities and higher standard of living.
        lotsofpulp 8y ago
        Cities in league with Chicago would be NYC/SFO/LAX/SEA/ATL/BOS/DC, and maybe after that DEN/PDX/AUS/BNA/TPA/MSP. Chicago is good for many careers, but for how much longer, and how much are people willing to deal with Chicago's weather? It does have a huge source of fresh water though, so that is definitely a plus. But while growth is happening mostly in the West and South: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/estimates-cities.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/estimate... Who knows, maybe the pros of Chicago outweigh the cons if you're in commodities trading or whatnot, but for many in the top 20%, I don't think they would suffer career wise in many other places where the tax burdens aren't so severe.
  - Veelox 8y ago
    I know what you are getting out but I would like to remind you that US corruption is nothing compared to parts of the world where it is expected to have to give the police cash when they pull you over.
    - behringer 8y ago
      Nobody in those other countries praises their government as if it were the best out of all others.
- remyp 8y ago
  Yeah, I mean, fine. Chicago's corrupt, I guess, but I've lived there 10 years and it's not like the alderman is shaking me down for protection money or whatever. Every city has advantages and disadvantages. I'd defy you to show me another actual city (def: "owning a car is optional") in the US where my money goes anywhere near as far despite the high taxes and corruption. Do that and I'll move, but until then I'm going to sit tight and enjoy my deep dish pizza.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - xigency 8y ago
    > it's not like the alderman is shaking me down for protection money or whatever. I guess you don't own a Burger King :) Reference: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-alderman-ed-burke-charges-20190103-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-al...
dominotw 8y ago
denver
logfromblammo 8y ago
It doesn't have to be non-corrupt to be less corrupt than Chicago, Illinois. Every big city has some corruption in it, naturally, but Chicago takes it to a whole 'nother level. After Chicago, I went north into Wisconsin, which was fine at the time. From there, I went south, to a state which still reminds me of downstate Illinois, but without the political counterweight of a major metropolis to rein in the dumb ideas. And whenever visiting Wisconsin now, it seems like they're becoming just as bad. Rust belt states are rusting. As the factories go, the vicious and predatory all backstab each other in an attempt to get first gnaw at the bones and offal. The endemic levels of corruption were only sustainable over widespread economic prosperity, but that's gone. People with steadily declining real purchasing power since 1980 have less to steal or swindle, are far quicker to bleed dry, and quicker to quibble over their remaining pennies. Federal leadership could probably turn the rust belt around, if that were a priority, but, well, you know... if a Democratic president with political roots in Chicago couldn't or wouldn't do it, there's not much of a chance of it happening now.
- moorhosj 8y ago
  ==Federal leadership could probably turn the rust belt around, if that were a priority, but, well, you know... if a Democratic president with political roots in Chicago couldn't or wouldn't do it, there's not much of a chance of it happening now. == I couldn't agree more. I strongly believe there should be a Marshall Plan for the Rust Belt. It should probably be a part of the Green New Deal, especially if climate change will impact migration patterns. If you look at the most violent cities in the country, it is dominated by Rust Belt cities (Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Cleveland). If we are looking for a national emergency, this might qualify.
  - tomcam 8y ago
    Your Marshall Plan for the rust belt is to take money from other taxpayers in the country and give it to... the most corrupt governments in the country?
    - moorhosj 8y ago

Are you asking in good faith, or as a setup to respond how parent's choice is just as corrupt? I ask because parent didn't say they moved to a non-corrupt jurisdiction, they just said they moved away from Chicago. Pedantry aside, if parent's answer is "someplace other than Chicago", then they're probably better off. That place has been a cesspool of corruption, both state and city, since I was a kid; and I'm not young.

behringer 8y ago
I've been all over. They're all corrupt.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  I've been all over as well. You are correct, they all are corrupt. That said, we generally don't care about the corruption in other places. For instance, I recently learned that Pennsylvania has a problem with corrupt DA's the same as Wisconsin does. Now I know. Now I lament the situation of people in Pennsylvania. But all that said, I'm from Wisconsin, so I'm a little more concerned about the bent DA's we have here. Maybe the original comment was posted by someone from Chicago? In which case, why would he care about corruption elsewhere? For instance, why would he care that people in Wisconsin are out 4 to 5 billion bucks for a Foxconn factory? Yes, he may lament our situation. He might even get a little upset by it when he hears about it on the news... but in the end, Chicago is his concern, not some local-yokels in up in Fond du Lac, Cambria or Superior. Whereas for me, it's infuriating maybe in the same way that all the parking tickets people are talking about seem to infuriate people from Chicago.
  - moorhosj 8y ago
    The point is that moving from one place because of corruption won't necessarily save you from corruption.
    - lotsofpulp 8y ago
      Clearly a false point considering how many people immigrate around the world from countries with high corruption to low corruption. There are definitely places in the US where you can enjoy a higher standard of living than Chicago due to local and state government being less corrupt. And it’s going to get worse. You would be going against basic arithmetic to say the cash flow situations of states like IL/NJ/CT/KY won’t lead to more and more corruption, barring any unforeseen wealth from natural resources bailing them out.
      - bilbo0s 8y ago
        Add WI and KS to the list. (Although I suppose Kansas is already long part the "getting worse" part. They've got serious financial issues.) That said, I do think that moorhosj is right. Moving somewhere and expecting there to be no corruption is a bit of a fool's errand. I could move away from Wisconsin. Lots of people do, even a lot of childhood friends. Here's the thing though, there really is no other place that will allow me completely corruption free living. Maybe they don't steal as much from you when you're in Nebraska or Washington state as they do when you're in Wisconsin, but I find it difficult to believe that no corruption at all is happening in other places. (And the laments of my childhood friends who have moved, kind of validate that view for me.)
      - moorhosj 8y ago
        ==There are definitely places in the US where you can enjoy a higher standard of living than Chicago due to local and state government being less corrupt.== Please name the cities with comparable career opportunities and higher standard of living.
        lotsofpulp 8y ago
        Cities in league with Chicago would be NYC/SFO/LAX/SEA/ATL/BOS/DC, and maybe after that DEN/PDX/AUS/BNA/TPA/MSP. Chicago is good for many careers, but for how much longer, and how much are people willing to deal with Chicago's weather? It does have a huge source of fresh water though, so that is definitely a plus. But while growth is happening mostly in the West and South: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/estimates-cities.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/estimate... Who knows, maybe the pros of Chicago outweigh the cons if you're in commodities trading or whatnot, but for many in the top 20%, I don't think they would suffer career wise in many other places where the tax burdens aren't so severe.
- Veelox 8y ago
  I know what you are getting out but I would like to remind you that US corruption is nothing compared to parts of the world where it is expected to have to give the police cash when they pull you over.
  - behringer 8y ago
    Nobody in those other countries praises their government as if it were the best out of all others.
remyp 8y ago
Yeah, I mean, fine. Chicago's corrupt, I guess, but I've lived there 10 years and it's not like the alderman is shaking me down for protection money or whatever. Every city has advantages and disadvantages. I'd defy you to show me another actual city (def: "owning a car is optional") in the US where my money goes anywhere near as far despite the high taxes and corruption. Do that and I'll move, but until then I'm going to sit tight and enjoy my deep dish pizza.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- xigency 8y ago
  > it's not like the alderman is shaking me down for protection money or whatever. I guess you don't own a Burger King :) Reference: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-alderman-ed-burke-charges-20190103-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-al...

dominotw 8y ago

denver

logfromblammo 8y ago

It doesn't have to be non-corrupt to be less corrupt than Chicago, Illinois. Every big city has some corruption in it, naturally, but Chicago takes it to a whole 'nother level. After Chicago, I went north into Wisconsin, which was fine at the time. From there, I went south, to a state which still reminds me of downstate Illinois, but without the political counterweight of a major metropolis to rein in the dumb ideas. And whenever visiting Wisconsin now, it seems like they're becoming just as bad. Rust belt states are rusting. As the factories go, the vicious and predatory all backstab each other in an attempt to get first gnaw at the bones and offal. The endemic levels of corruption were only sustainable over widespread economic prosperity, but that's gone. People with steadily declining real purchasing power since 1980 have less to steal or swindle, are far quicker to bleed dry, and quicker to quibble over their remaining pennies. Federal leadership could probably turn the rust belt around, if that were a priority, but, well, you know... if a Democratic president with political roots in Chicago couldn't or wouldn't do it, there's not much of a chance of it happening now.

moorhosj 8y ago
==Federal leadership could probably turn the rust belt around, if that were a priority, but, well, you know... if a Democratic president with political roots in Chicago couldn't or wouldn't do it, there's not much of a chance of it happening now. == I couldn't agree more. I strongly believe there should be a Marshall Plan for the Rust Belt. It should probably be a part of the Green New Deal, especially if climate change will impact migration patterns. If you look at the most violent cities in the country, it is dominated by Rust Belt cities (Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Cleveland). If we are looking for a national emergency, this might qualify.
- tomcam 8y ago
  Your Marshall Plan for the rust belt is to take money from other taxpayers in the country and give it to... the most corrupt governments in the country?
  - moorhosj 8y ago