4 ms·

So, if reality doesn't match my hypotesis I dissmiss reality? By the way: > The record snowfall in Europe does not care about the scientific paper you posted

So, if reality doesn't match my hypotesis I dissmiss reality? By the way: > The record snowfall in Europe does not care about the scientific paper you posted Confussing climate with weather?

briantakita 8y ago
I don't know, but probably, since we interpret reality through the lens of our biases & models we are exposed to/believe in. There's unknown unknowns in a complex phenomena re: climate. According to this video, a signature of CO2 warming is the surface & lower atmosphere warms while the upper atmosphere cools. https://youtu.be/H5kejSYPD7U?t=90 https://youtu.be/H5kejSYPD7U?t=90 Yet the current heavy snow storm in Europe is being caused by the splitting of the polar vortex, caused by warming in the stratosphere. https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2019-01-10-the-polar-vortex-has-fallen-apart-and-that-could-unleash-a-much https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2019-01-10-the-po... There's speculation that the acceleration of movement of the magnetic poles may have a factor, but it's a complex system... https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2018-12-18-polar-vortex-weakening-colder-jan-2019 https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2018-12-18-polar-... Point is, there are many complex dynamics at play & it's tempting to many people to subscribe a single factor as the primary cause. The reality is far more complex than what many of us would prefer, so many of us view reality with a simpler lens that we wish to see things with...
- Oletros 8y ago
  > According to this video, a signature of CO2 warming is the surface & lower atmosphere warms while the upper atmosphere cools > Yet the current heavy snow storm in Europe is being caused by the splitting of the polar vortex, caused by warming in the stratosphere Split of polar vortex: https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/facts/warming_NH.html https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/facts/warming_NH.html You're still confussing weather with climate and an atmospheric phenomenon with global warming through CO2
briantakita 8y ago
> You're still confussing weather with climate and an atmospheric phenomenon with global warming through CO2 I don't think I am. Let me clarify my position; I see CO2 as a potential factor in climate change, though it's not clear if reducing anthropomorphic CO2 levels will have a positive (or enough of a positive) impact to justify it's opportunity costs in economy, freedom, etc. Another factor that is rarely discussed is plant growth. As CO2 increases, plant growth increases, which would sequester CO2. Less solar output would reduce plant growth, as would pollution, conventional monoculture till petro-chemical agriculture, habitat loss/ecosystem collapse, among other factors. I think we would get more bang for the buck if we focus on local/distributed initiatives such as regenerative polyculture agriculture, localized permaculture solutions, water/ground/air pollution, & embrace the complexities of ecosystems. Pesticide usage should be reduced in favor of using natural solutions (such as predators). Putting on the blinders to only legislate CO2 levels is a mistake, rife with unintended consequences & opportunity costs. Local solutions requires localities, individuals, & nature to be empowered, opposed to a reliance on centralized entities & technology. Local/distributed mindsets accounts for the qualitative complexities of nature whilst centralized entities seek simplistic quantitative one-size-fits-all metrics to drive bureaucratic policy; which explains why a simplistic measurement (CO2) is an attractive boogie man to our climate issues. Even our discussions are dumbed down due to the obsession over CO2 (a singular quantifiable "cause"), because the possibility space of both causes & solutions are constrained...
- esarbe 8y ago
  There is scientific consensus that reducing antropogenic CO2 is /the/ mayor contributor to global climate change. There are other factors, but unless we tackle CO2, they don't really matter. Besides; there's very little we can do about volcanic forcing. The 'obsession' with CO2 you identify is the 'obsession' of a brain surgeon with the aneurysm that's going to kill her patient.
  - briantakita 8y ago
    The obsession I'm mentioning is based one's worldview & presuppositions...How we reify & approach the problems determine the solutions. Appeal to authority will ensure policies that enrich the authority, with the associated conflicts of interest, confirmation bias, & transfer of power from the population to the authority. Remember, that plant growth is promoted with Carbon Dioxide. A principle of Permaculture is turning the problem into the solution. Elevated CO2 is plant food, if we properly take advantage of the opportunity. Here's an anology re: agriculture. Conventional monoculture petro-chemical till agriculture optimizes for yield & only yield. Unfortunately, there are pests, molds, blight, disease, weather issues, drought, soil conditions that reduce yield. In response, pesticides, herbicides, GMOs, mass irrigation (disrupting watersheds), petro-chemical fertilizers are all sold to the farmer. This leads to soil erosion, destruction of ecosystems, pollution, & lower quality (less nutrition) food. Instead, one can practice regenerative agriculture, that optimizes the ecosystem & soil remediation. Earthworks, such as swales, terraces, & ponds are used to capture rainfall & cycle the water through the property for as long as possible. Polycultures of plants that compliment each other are planted together. Animals are allowed to graze, which brings in fertilizer. Predatory insects & birds are introduced into the habitat to control pests & molds. And you get a higher overall yield of various higher quality (nutrition) crops with a healthier ecosystem, which creates a healthier climate. Entire ecosystems can be built, which has an affect on the climate in the local area by increasing rainfall, keeping water in the biosphere, increasing life in the system. These practices can happen on a large scale with quick wins that lasts generations...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDgDWbQtlKI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDgDWbQtlKI | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC_Y1ZTZXQ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC_Y1ZTZXQ4 Even something as small as reintroducing wolves into Yellowstone have profound environmental impacts (trophic cascades)...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q There is even evidence that large portions (some estimate ~50%) of the Amazon Rain Forest were curated by previous indigenous civilizations. (See "1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus" by Charles Mann)

So, if reality doesn't match my hypotesis I dissmiss reality? By the way: > The record snowfall in Europe does not care about the scientific paper you posted Confussing climate with weather?

briantakita 8y ago

I don't know, but probably, since we interpret reality through the lens of our biases & models we are exposed to/believe in. There's unknown unknowns in a complex phenomena re: climate. According to this video, a signature of CO2 warming is the surface & lower atmosphere warms while the upper atmosphere cools. https://youtu.be/H5kejSYPD7U?t=90 https://youtu.be/H5kejSYPD7U?t=90 Yet the current heavy snow storm in Europe is being caused by the splitting of the polar vortex, caused by warming in the stratosphere. https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2019-01-10-the-polar-vortex-has-fallen-apart-and-that-could-unleash-a-much https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2019-01-10-the-po... There's speculation that the acceleration of movement of the magnetic poles may have a factor, but it's a complex system... https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2018-12-18-polar-vortex-weakening-colder-jan-2019 https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2018-12-18-polar-... Point is, there are many complex dynamics at play & it's tempting to many people to subscribe a single factor as the primary cause. The reality is far more complex than what many of us would prefer, so many of us view reality with a simpler lens that we wish to see things with...

Oletros 8y ago
> According to this video, a signature of CO2 warming is the surface & lower atmosphere warms while the upper atmosphere cools > Yet the current heavy snow storm in Europe is being caused by the splitting of the polar vortex, caused by warming in the stratosphere Split of polar vortex: https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/facts/warming_NH.html https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/facts/warming_NH.html You're still confussing weather with climate and an atmospheric phenomenon with global warming through CO2

briantakita 8y ago

> You're still confussing weather with climate and an atmospheric phenomenon with global warming through CO2 I don't think I am. Let me clarify my position; I see CO2 as a potential factor in climate change, though it's not clear if reducing anthropomorphic CO2 levels will have a positive (or enough of a positive) impact to justify it's opportunity costs in economy, freedom, etc. Another factor that is rarely discussed is plant growth. As CO2 increases, plant growth increases, which would sequester CO2. Less solar output would reduce plant growth, as would pollution, conventional monoculture till petro-chemical agriculture, habitat loss/ecosystem collapse, among other factors. I think we would get more bang for the buck if we focus on local/distributed initiatives such as regenerative polyculture agriculture, localized permaculture solutions, water/ground/air pollution, & embrace the complexities of ecosystems. Pesticide usage should be reduced in favor of using natural solutions (such as predators). Putting on the blinders to only legislate CO2 levels is a mistake, rife with unintended consequences & opportunity costs. Local solutions requires localities, individuals, & nature to be empowered, opposed to a reliance on centralized entities & technology. Local/distributed mindsets accounts for the qualitative complexities of nature whilst centralized entities seek simplistic quantitative one-size-fits-all metrics to drive bureaucratic policy; which explains why a simplistic measurement (CO2) is an attractive boogie man to our climate issues. Even our discussions are dumbed down due to the obsession over CO2 (a singular quantifiable "cause"), because the possibility space of both causes & solutions are constrained...

esarbe 8y ago
There is scientific consensus that reducing antropogenic CO2 is /the/ mayor contributor to global climate change. There are other factors, but unless we tackle CO2, they don't really matter. Besides; there's very little we can do about volcanic forcing. The 'obsession' with CO2 you identify is the 'obsession' of a brain surgeon with the aneurysm that's going to kill her patient.
- briantakita 8y ago
  The obsession I'm mentioning is based one's worldview & presuppositions...How we reify & approach the problems determine the solutions. Appeal to authority will ensure policies that enrich the authority, with the associated conflicts of interest, confirmation bias, & transfer of power from the population to the authority. Remember, that plant growth is promoted with Carbon Dioxide. A principle of Permaculture is turning the problem into the solution. Elevated CO2 is plant food, if we properly take advantage of the opportunity. Here's an anology re: agriculture. Conventional monoculture petro-chemical till agriculture optimizes for yield & only yield. Unfortunately, there are pests, molds, blight, disease, weather issues, drought, soil conditions that reduce yield. In response, pesticides, herbicides, GMOs, mass irrigation (disrupting watersheds), petro-chemical fertilizers are all sold to the farmer. This leads to soil erosion, destruction of ecosystems, pollution, & lower quality (less nutrition) food. Instead, one can practice regenerative agriculture, that optimizes the ecosystem & soil remediation. Earthworks, such as swales, terraces, & ponds are used to capture rainfall & cycle the water through the property for as long as possible. Polycultures of plants that compliment each other are planted together. Animals are allowed to graze, which brings in fertilizer. Predatory insects & birds are introduced into the habitat to control pests & molds. And you get a higher overall yield of various higher quality (nutrition) crops with a healthier ecosystem, which creates a healthier climate. Entire ecosystems can be built, which has an affect on the climate in the local area by increasing rainfall, keeping water in the biosphere, increasing life in the system. These practices can happen on a large scale with quick wins that lasts generations...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDgDWbQtlKI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDgDWbQtlKI | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC_Y1ZTZXQ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC_Y1ZTZXQ4 Even something as small as reintroducing wolves into Yellowstone have profound environmental impacts (trophic cascades)...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa5OBhXz-Q There is even evidence that large portions (some estimate ~50%) of the Amazon Rain Forest were curated by previous indigenous civilizations. (See "1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus" by Charles Mann)