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I used to use AirBnB all the time. Lately I've switched back to using hotels almost exclusively. The camera/privacy thing is a big part of it. I empathize wi

by eric_b 8y ago

I used to use AirBnB all the time. Lately I've switched back to using hotels almost exclusively. The camera/privacy thing is a big part of it. I empathize with the hosts to a degree - you don't want people doing outrageous things in your home. But the hosts want their cake and to eat it too. Don't rent out your home if you don't want the risk of people damaging it! (As a minor aside, I've also noticed the quality of the places I've found on AirBnB has gone down. The homes I stayed at before I quit using it were not very clean (despite the fee!), things were broken, key retrieval was a pain etc. Hotels used to be much more expensive, but price/quality of experience is starting to get more competitive) It's funny to me, because AirBnB runs in to all the same problems we had with hotels a hundred years ago. We have dozens of taxes, rules, regulations, building codes etc now for hotels. I imagine at some point it will be the same for AirBnBs. What's old is new.

rjf72 8y ago
An alternative here would be a meet in the middle type system where venues could opt into a private regulatory body that entailed obeying a system of rules and regulations, and accepting adjudications of the body in case of conflicts. In return, entities could advertise membership as a selling point, and the regulatory body itself could provide lists of participating entities to anybody who'd like to find, for instance, a higher quality BnB stay at. The system would be funded by entities paying a fee for participation, and perhaps also allowing membership for regular customers as which would entail various promotions and prioritization. This generally would not work for areas where there is monopolization or where the benefits would be less visible to the consumer in the normal case. what I mean by 'the normal case' is that even a shoddy building won't usually fall down, so abiding and non-abiding entities would seem more or less identical until the 0.01% scenario hits with resultant catastrophe. But things like BnBs are perfect for this model since there is major competition for consumers and transgressions against obviously desirable rules (like no cameras in the house) are not particularly uncommon. --- As an aside, the reason I mention this as a desirable option is obviously not because I think there should be any hotels that have e.g. cameras in rooms. But rather because these things never just end at a handful of very critical points. Take food safety as an example. Obviously there are a good number of basic ideas everybody would agree on such as ensuring your hands are cleaned/gloved, that food is reasonably fresh, and so on. But as regularly organizations feel obligated to continue to expand, you start ending up with ever more esoteric rules. For instance in California if your dish cleaning sink for a food stall is 9 inches deep, you're in violation of regulations. They arbitrarily require that a dish cleaning sink must be at least 10 inches deep. This gradual creep of rules poses an issue to people who are just starting a business. So obviously we all want hotels without cameras and food stalls where servers wash their hands, but on the other hand being forced to read literally hundreds of pages of legalese with countless 'gotchas' that can catch even perfectly safe and desirable products is something that can really hamper entrepreneurship, while simultaneously artificially entrenching older entities. Neither of which I think many people would think is a good thing.
- RankingMember 8y ago
  Or, how about one rule: No cameras in living spaces. If you want to make money using AirBnB, you understand that you can't use cameras inside living spaces. I don't think we need to invent a new bureaucracy to deal with this.
  - rjf72 8y ago
    The system I described was much more akin to something like the Better Business Bureau than a new bureaucracy. It tends to be a way to get things done in a way where both consumers and businesses want to obey them (as is rather the definition of opt-in systems). For instance I just checked the BBB entry for AirBnB [1]. It turns out that even though they aren't affiliated with the BBB, they are rapidly responding to complaints and seem to be resolving most issues. Many of the complaints/resolutions are publicly displayed. Feels rather voyeurish reading them, but it's all quite interesting! You tend to get much better results with using a third party company (such as the BBB) since the company's action towards the company stands to have much more weight than a single consumer's. It's similar to governmental regulation, except it tends to scale more appropriately with size. E.g. 'Ma and Pop BnB' are generally not going to end up facing BBB complaints since they can resolve things 'locally.' Whereas with governmental regulatory systems 'Ma and Pop BnB' is treated in many ways the same as multibillion dollar multinational "BnB" and inadvertent noncompliance can be devastating, even when such inadvertent noncompliance in no way negatively affected anybody as you invariably end up with some rules that make sense for multinationals, but not necessarily e.g. a couple of retirees renting out a spare room. [1] - https://www.bbb.org/us/ca/san-francisco/profile/rental-listings/airbnb-inc-1116-375521/complaints https://www.bbb.org/us/ca/san-francisco/profile/rental-listi...
    - RankingMember 8y ago
      Is there anyone that still takes the BBB seriously? They operate as a pay-to-play scheme, charging money in exchange for their approval in an outright quid pro quo sales operation. https://money.cnn.com/2015/09/30/news/better-business-bureau-millions/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2015/09/30/news/better-business-bureau... Beyond that, the advent of modern communication has taken a huge bite out of whatever relevancy they might've had. Why complain to the BBB when you can complain via Yelp/Google Reviews/Facebook, etc. and have a bigger impact.
on_and_off 8y ago
Same. On a recent trip a close friend advised me to look at hotels as well as airbnb. Turns out that a 5* hotel was renting a room at half price (I was looking for a room at the last minute), making it competitive with a mid range airbnb. I am definitely going to do comparison shopping again, it was an awesome experience.
morpheuskafka 8y ago
> It's funny to me, because AirBnB runs in to all the same problems we had with hotels a hundred years ago. We have dozens of taxes, rules, regulations, building codes etc now for hotels. I imagine at some point it will be the same for AirBnBs. What's old is new. An industry can only be disruptive for so long. Eventually, it will either fail, or be successful and become the new status quo.
- umvi 8y ago
  > Eventually, it will either fail, or be successful and become the new status quo. The book "Animal Farm" is so prescient, it's scary. I know it was written about governments but it applies to a lot of different organizations and industries: "The creatures outside looked from <new> to <old>, and from <old> to <new>, and from <new> to <old> again; but already it was impossible to say which was which." Just swap out <new> and <old> with: Uber/taxis online streaming/cable AirBnb/hotels Not saying all of these will come to pass, but generally as the disruptive <new> are encumbered with ever increasing regulation over time they eventually become <old> again
  - rchaud 8y ago
    I disagree with the streaming video example. Netflix, Disney etc aren't facing any regulatory issues that's causing them to circle their wagons and create their own content pipelines and streaming services. They're doing it to maximize profit and be less dependent on third parties.
  - trophycase 8y ago
    More like: when immoral profiteers figure out how to best game the new system, the quality becomes more or less the same
  - CamperBob2 8y ago
    Uber at their worst still beats the heck out of taxis at their best. (Yes, that's an exaggeration, but only a mild one.) There is a reason why the taxi industry died almost overnight. Legalities aside, that simply doesn't happen to industries whose customers are happy. However, I've never quite grokked AirBnB. I'm not a big fan of traveling in general, and when I do travel I prefer (and don't mind paying for) predictability and good customer service. Crashing in some random person's house doesn't seem very predictable, as threads like this tend to suggest, and responsive customer service is obviously out of the question.
_Donny 8y ago
I have switched back to hotels too, due to my recent experience. My friends and I were staying over at a 4-subroom Airbnb during the summer. The apartment looked great, and we really could not complain about the price either. However, we started noticing that none of the furniture match; there we no more than two of the same chairs, the beds were all different, the cutlery was bent and visibly used, etc. When two of my friends sat on the edge of a double-bed at once, the whole frame collapsed. Puzzled, we inspected further only to find custom fitted planks, badly mounted by too small screws, legs made of cheap wood, and so on. Contacting the host, we were told that we had to reimburse him for a completely new bed, as well as the transport and installation costs. Meanwhile, we could just "sleep on the floor". It became all to clear that the host picked up furniture from some kind of recycling station, and expected the guests to pay for it when it inevitably breaks. This way, he could continuously replace the furniture for new one, and having the guests pay for it! Luckily, we could prove to Airbnb that the furniture was not original, and that it was modified multiple times, badly. After the whole vacation spent worrying about the communication between the host and the Airbnb, we managed to avoid having to pay. It scares me that the host was willing and able to ignore the safety of his guests, and he got away with it without any repercussions from Airbnb. PS: While my bad review of the host did not even put a nudge in his almost perfect 4.5/5 score, mine fell so drastically that most decent hosts might now reconsider housing me.
- patagonia 8y ago
  Luckily, we could prove to Airbnb that the furniture was not original, and that it was modified multiple times, badly. After the whole vacation spent worrying about the communication between the host and the Airbnb, we managed to avoid having to pay. A similar experience is what put me off to AirBnb. What was supposed to be a carefree weekend at the beach turned into managing the property manager. One thing after another. Starting with no key because the lockbox code was incorrect. Some other doozies include: twin not a full bed, patio door did not lock, no hand soap in bathroom, and the Internet didn’t work. Hosting is difficult and Airbnb is still learning. Once day they may have it figured out, but I’d be surprised if when that day comes they don’t look a lot like the incucmbent players. In the mean time we are all paying for their training.
dustinmoris 8y ago
I can only echo that! We did an around-the-world trip for an entire year from 2017 to 2018 and did not use AirBnb a single time. We looked up AirBnb places maybe a handful of times only to find out that the quality and location of AirBnb homes was worse for often a more expensive price than a good hotel. We ended up booking everything via booking.com and hostelworld.com. Hotels were often cheaper, in better locations, had a better service (longer reception hours, etc.), often breakfast included, room service, other guests which we could connect with and most importantly, no creepy cameras!
jbverschoor 8y ago
Hotels are cheaper and more convnient for shorter stays anyway. Also the checkin process and key pickup is abominal sometimes
- hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
  I think this one is pretty key. For the first couple years when AirBnB started, they were almost always cheaper than hotels, even for whole places. Of course, a lot of that was their fees were lower and they weren't paying taxes. I can almost find better deals at hotels now.
cc439 8y ago
This: "I've also noticed the quality of the places I've found on AirBnB has gone down." Is the direct result of people listening to your own own advice: "Don't rent out your home if you don't want the risk of people damaging it!" I rented my home a handful of times when I knew I would be out of town on the weekend. The first renters were great, the next 2 caused a combined $1,200 in damage that Airbnb refused to cover. Refunding me the cost of dry cleaning my comforter that was left with blood stains(!) instead of the cost to replace it was bullshit but that was all they'd offer. There was also no real recourse for one of the guests having at least a dozen people over for a midnight afterparty. I was still finding cigarette butts and trash out of my backyard landscaping for months after that final rental. There's just not enough money in Airbnb rentals for people who only have their own property to rent and don't desparately need that extra income, this the noticeable decline in quality. You're not the only person I've heard say that Airbnbs are becoming more like cheap motels than nice hotels.
jartelt 8y ago
I made the switch as well and now only get an AirBnB when traveling with a large group of friends to remote destinations. For my own travel, I got so sick of the problems with key access. It's just too hard to coordinate with most hosts when you are in a foreign country and don't have cell service or wi-fi. It's also super annoying when any number of other issues show up: spotty wi-fi, no cable TV, no soap or shampoo, poor quality mattress, etc. And then hosts often expect you to wash your dishes and put laundry in the washer. Why do I need to do this when I am paying >$100 for a "cleaning fee"???
- SilasX 8y ago
  >For my own travel, I got so sick of the problems with key access. It's just too hard to coordinate with most hosts when you are in a foreign country and don't have cell service or wi-fi. Yeah, in Spring two years ago a friend an I did a Europe trip, with 4 Airbnbs bookings in total. On three of them we had issues getting in, where we had to contact the host, who was hard to reach or unavailable. And none would give us separate keys. >And then hosts often expect you to wash your dishes and put laundry in the washer. Why do I need to do this when I am paying >$100 for a "cleaning fee"??? In fairness, cleaning involves a lot more than that step. But there does seem to be an arms race in how much of the cost they can cram into a hidden "cleaning" fee.
- cryptonym 8y ago
  I did AirBnB with a group. The place didn't had the beds advertised (I don't count defective inflatable mattress as bed) only 4 forks and 3 knives, the swimming pool was closed for 3 a months planned maintenance. The place had good ratings but from what I understood, the guy operating it had left and the new one was lost. To be fair, AirBnB gave me a $30 coupon. Thanks but I'm not using that one.
- conanbatt 8y ago
  Honestly dont get why Airbnb doesnt make /buy a lock mechanism and gives it to hosts. A simple key padlock suffices for 90% of the cases.
  - 8y ago
DoubleGlazing 8y ago
Same here. A few years ago all our AirBnB experiences were good, but over time they have progressively got worse. For example, one host housed us in what felt like a derelict hotel/doshouse with all sorts of weird people staying and no working locks or fire alarm. On another occasion we booked a cottage, but it had a blocked chimney and was spewing fumes and smoke in to the living area. And for our tenth wedding anniversary we booked another cottage where the host insisted on staying with us despite the listing saying we would have the property to ourselves. He also insisted on singing to us against our will, this was actually quite creepy. We did of course raise concerns with AirBnB about the first two and left a negative review for the third. AirBnB did not care and crucially it did not seem to have an effect on the ratings of these properties. That just does not seem right. I no longer trust AirBnB. I don't trust the listings, I don't trust the reviews and I certainly don't trust AirBnB itself to filter out bad hosts. This could be because AirBnB has grown so fast and it has struggled to cope, or it could be a conscious business decision. Either way, we don't use them anymore.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- fyfy18 8y ago
  I would have called Airbnb as soon as I found there was an issue and made them book me in somewhere else. You are paying a service fee to them for a reason.
  - wlesieutre 8y ago
    They should have called the fire marshal. Airbnb support is probably one step up from Google's in terms of reaching a satisfactory solution for customers. The fire marshal won't get you your money back, but they'll ruin a host's day if they're renting out a space without smoke detectors.
    - DoubleGlazing 8y ago
      Oh we did, and the owner of the building ended up in the press for a multitude of reasons a few weeks after we had our stay.
Karunamon 8y ago
>It's funny to me, because AirBnB runs in to all the same problems we had with hotels a hundred years ago. To a point. I find it a bit silly to regulate a single person renting out their house occasionally for short stretches (read: most users of AirBnB) to a corporation with multiple purpose built, million dollar facilities on expensive commercial property with their own staff and so forth.
- llampx 8y ago
  I've been looking at AirBNBs recently for a vacation. The small guy is an outlier anymore. Most of the listings are obviously professional, ie they do it for a living and have multiple properties and property managers. The network is hard to unravel since the companies behind the "hosts" create many profiles, but it is easy to see that its not just Carla or Emily or Cody offering up their apartment while they go on holiday. I've been on AirBNB for more than 6 years and have hosted as well, but the rules as well as the standards have tilted heavily to favor the big players.
  - trophycase 8y ago
    The last few AirBnBs I've stayed at have all been filled with "stock" goods. The cheapest handsoap, the cheapest paper towels, etc. Basically it looks like they went to the dollar store and filled their house with what's in it, which makes me believe that people don't actually live in there.
    - plusbryan 8y ago
      Unless AirBNB solicits more fine-grained reviews to elicit feedback on such things, or enacts a policy around consumables, this is the direction many hosts will go. As long as it doesn't reflect in the photos, corners will be cut.
batmansmk 8y ago
Airbnb should be liable one way or another of those situations. They should at least inspect the places before accepting them in the network. They should inspect after a complaint. I had a massive rat infestation in my Airbnb in Paris. I arrived at the place at night and I didn't see at first the forced temporary leave notice on the building door for all inhabitants. It took Airbnb 12h to respond to my emergency call. They didn't reimburse my first night, considering that I stayed and didn't allow me to review if I accepted the reimbursement of the rest of my booking. The wording was memorable "We contacted Thomas your host and he has agreed to ... ").
- reaperducer 8y ago
  They should at least inspect the places before accepting them in the network. They should inspect after a complaint. That requires people. Airbnb and its SV brethren aren't interested in using people to solve problems. They believe all problems can be solved with an algorithm. Except when it comes to faking AI.
  - madamelic 8y ago
    x.ai isn't SV. ;) It's NYC.
jimmaswell 8y ago
How recent is lately? My experience a bit over one year ago was great. Likely highly dependent on the area.
sendshot 8y ago
AirBnB's aren't that great, just another service that has already been refined. In hotels you might not be getting what you pay for, but at least there is a level of consistency for major chains. In AirBnB's you're left to the wims of the household that sets you up for the night or week. If the place doesn't have something, most of the time you're not going to call the home owners, but a hotel you have no problem calling the main lobby if there is an issue at 2 am.
- plusbryan 8y ago
  Downsides aside, one thing that AirBnB as a service provides over hotels is heterogeneity of location. Especially remote, suburban, or certain urban neighborhood locations will always be underserved by hotels, while still being desirable to potential guests.
  - sendshot 8y ago
    That is a big benefit, and I will be honest they have saved me from an expensive hotel at times, especially around packed conference areas. I just have had more bad experiences especially at those times, and would have in hindsight payed the higher rates at the hotels. Maybe this is just my rant, but the inconsistency and lack of some peoples awareness when it comes to hosting really puts me off.
tokyodude 8y ago
They did this in Japan. You're require to have an emergency sprinkler system for fires as just one example. If you don't have one, getting one installed is apparently around $20k so that prohibits lots of people from getting started renting out. Then as well they have to registered. If it's an apartment/condo building you have to get permission from the building management/home owners association. And I think it's max 90 days a year.
thisismyusernam 8y ago
Same is true for me. In my mid-to-late-twenties, I remember thinking "Damn, why are hotels so expensive? I'll just stay in this Airbnb, which is so much bigger anyway. This is the new way and it's disrupting hotels." Now at the outset of my thirties and a more settled phase of life, I will gladly pay a premium to stay in a hotel. In the same way, it's becoming more likely for me to flag a London black cab than book an Uber via the app. There's a reason why some business models and establishment types 'just work' throughout history and it's not entirely because of well-funded lobbying and conservative lawmaking, as we were maybe led to believe in the early Airbnb/Uber days when anything disruptive was shiny.
- rchaud 8y ago
  I wouldn't say they 'just work', but rather that what we see is the steady state they've arrived at, warts and all. The startup industry has this obsessive focus on looking at the steady state and thinking they can fix all the warts, without really looking into why they formed in the first place.
  - smacktoward 8y ago
    SV has a Chesterton's Fence problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence
    - JadeNB 8y ago
      What is SV?
      - smacktoward 8y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley
    - rchaud 8y ago
      Good to know there's already been some prior thought on this topic.
rchaud 8y ago
> It's funny to me, because AirBnB runs in to all the same problems we had with hotels a hundred years ago. Every startup is banking on consumers forgetting this. "Hey, X is far too inefficient/expensive, you deserve Y". If the startup becomes a unicorn, it's never going to be long before they start following the same rules as the incumbents they toppled.

by eric_b 8y ago

rjf72 8y ago

An alternative here would be a meet in the middle type system where venues could opt into a private regulatory body that entailed obeying a system of rules and regulations, and accepting adjudications of the body in case of conflicts. In return, entities could advertise membership as a selling point, and the regulatory body itself could provide lists of participating entities to anybody who'd like to find, for instance, a higher quality BnB stay at. The system would be funded by entities paying a fee for participation, and perhaps also allowing membership for regular customers as which would entail various promotions and prioritization. This generally would not work for areas where there is monopolization or where the benefits would be less visible to the consumer in the normal case. what I mean by 'the normal case' is that even a shoddy building won't usually fall down, so abiding and non-abiding entities would seem more or less identical until the 0.01% scenario hits with resultant catastrophe. But things like BnBs are perfect for this model since there is major competition for consumers and transgressions against obviously desirable rules (like no cameras in the house) are not particularly uncommon. --- As an aside, the reason I mention this as a desirable option is obviously not because I think there should be any hotels that have e.g. cameras in rooms. But rather because these things never just end at a handful of very critical points. Take food safety as an example. Obviously there are a good number of basic ideas everybody would agree on such as ensuring your hands are cleaned/gloved, that food is reasonably fresh, and so on. But as regularly organizations feel obligated to continue to expand, you start ending up with ever more esoteric rules. For instance in California if your dish cleaning sink for a food stall is 9 inches deep, you're in violation of regulations. They arbitrarily require that a dish cleaning sink must be at least 10 inches deep. This gradual creep of rules poses an issue to people who are just starting a business. So obviously we all want hotels without cameras and food stalls where servers wash their hands, but on the other hand being forced to read literally hundreds of pages of legalese with countless 'gotchas' that can catch even perfectly safe and desirable products is something that can really hamper entrepreneurship, while simultaneously artificially entrenching older entities. Neither of which I think many people would think is a good thing.

RankingMember 8y ago
Or, how about one rule: No cameras in living spaces. If you want to make money using AirBnB, you understand that you can't use cameras inside living spaces. I don't think we need to invent a new bureaucracy to deal with this.
- rjf72 8y ago
  The system I described was much more akin to something like the Better Business Bureau than a new bureaucracy. It tends to be a way to get things done in a way where both consumers and businesses want to obey them (as is rather the definition of opt-in systems). For instance I just checked the BBB entry for AirBnB [1]. It turns out that even though they aren't affiliated with the BBB, they are rapidly responding to complaints and seem to be resolving most issues. Many of the complaints/resolutions are publicly displayed. Feels rather voyeurish reading them, but it's all quite interesting! You tend to get much better results with using a third party company (such as the BBB) since the company's action towards the company stands to have much more weight than a single consumer's. It's similar to governmental regulation, except it tends to scale more appropriately with size. E.g. 'Ma and Pop BnB' are generally not going to end up facing BBB complaints since they can resolve things 'locally.' Whereas with governmental regulatory systems 'Ma and Pop BnB' is treated in many ways the same as multibillion dollar multinational "BnB" and inadvertent noncompliance can be devastating, even when such inadvertent noncompliance in no way negatively affected anybody as you invariably end up with some rules that make sense for multinationals, but not necessarily e.g. a couple of retirees renting out a spare room. [1] - https://www.bbb.org/us/ca/san-francisco/profile/rental-listings/airbnb-inc-1116-375521/complaints https://www.bbb.org/us/ca/san-francisco/profile/rental-listi...
  - RankingMember 8y ago
    Is there anyone that still takes the BBB seriously? They operate as a pay-to-play scheme, charging money in exchange for their approval in an outright quid pro quo sales operation. https://money.cnn.com/2015/09/30/news/better-business-bureau-millions/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2015/09/30/news/better-business-bureau... Beyond that, the advent of modern communication has taken a huge bite out of whatever relevancy they might've had. Why complain to the BBB when you can complain via Yelp/Google Reviews/Facebook, etc. and have a bigger impact.

on_and_off 8y ago

Same. On a recent trip a close friend advised me to look at hotels as well as airbnb. Turns out that a 5* hotel was renting a room at half price (I was looking for a room at the last minute), making it competitive with a mid range airbnb. I am definitely going to do comparison shopping again, it was an awesome experience.

morpheuskafka 8y ago

> It's funny to me, because AirBnB runs in to all the same problems we had with hotels a hundred years ago. We have dozens of taxes, rules, regulations, building codes etc now for hotels. I imagine at some point it will be the same for AirBnBs. What's old is new. An industry can only be disruptive for so long. Eventually, it will either fail, or be successful and become the new status quo.

umvi 8y ago
> Eventually, it will either fail, or be successful and become the new status quo. The book "Animal Farm" is so prescient, it's scary. I know it was written about governments but it applies to a lot of different organizations and industries: "The creatures outside looked from <new> to <old>, and from <old> to <new>, and from <new> to <old> again; but already it was impossible to say which was which." Just swap out <new> and <old> with: Uber/taxis online streaming/cable AirBnb/hotels Not saying all of these will come to pass, but generally as the disruptive <new> are encumbered with ever increasing regulation over time they eventually become <old> again
- rchaud 8y ago
  I disagree with the streaming video example. Netflix, Disney etc aren't facing any regulatory issues that's causing them to circle their wagons and create their own content pipelines and streaming services. They're doing it to maximize profit and be less dependent on third parties.
- trophycase 8y ago
  More like: when immoral profiteers figure out how to best game the new system, the quality becomes more or less the same
- CamperBob2 8y ago
  Uber at their worst still beats the heck out of taxis at their best. (Yes, that's an exaggeration, but only a mild one.) There is a reason why the taxi industry died almost overnight. Legalities aside, that simply doesn't happen to industries whose customers are happy. However, I've never quite grokked AirBnB. I'm not a big fan of traveling in general, and when I do travel I prefer (and don't mind paying for) predictability and good customer service. Crashing in some random person's house doesn't seem very predictable, as threads like this tend to suggest, and responsive customer service is obviously out of the question.

_Donny 8y ago

I have switched back to hotels too, due to my recent experience. My friends and I were staying over at a 4-subroom Airbnb during the summer. The apartment looked great, and we really could not complain about the price either. However, we started noticing that none of the furniture match; there we no more than two of the same chairs, the beds were all different, the cutlery was bent and visibly used, etc. When two of my friends sat on the edge of a double-bed at once, the whole frame collapsed. Puzzled, we inspected further only to find custom fitted planks, badly mounted by too small screws, legs made of cheap wood, and so on. Contacting the host, we were told that we had to reimburse him for a completely new bed, as well as the transport and installation costs. Meanwhile, we could just "sleep on the floor". It became all to clear that the host picked up furniture from some kind of recycling station, and expected the guests to pay for it when it inevitably breaks. This way, he could continuously replace the furniture for new one, and having the guests pay for it! Luckily, we could prove to Airbnb that the furniture was not original, and that it was modified multiple times, badly. After the whole vacation spent worrying about the communication between the host and the Airbnb, we managed to avoid having to pay. It scares me that the host was willing and able to ignore the safety of his guests, and he got away with it without any repercussions from Airbnb. PS: While my bad review of the host did not even put a nudge in his almost perfect 4.5/5 score, mine fell so drastically that most decent hosts might now reconsider housing me.

patagonia 8y ago
Luckily, we could prove to Airbnb that the furniture was not original, and that it was modified multiple times, badly. After the whole vacation spent worrying about the communication between the host and the Airbnb, we managed to avoid having to pay. A similar experience is what put me off to AirBnb. What was supposed to be a carefree weekend at the beach turned into managing the property manager. One thing after another. Starting with no key because the lockbox code was incorrect. Some other doozies include: twin not a full bed, patio door did not lock, no hand soap in bathroom, and the Internet didn’t work. Hosting is difficult and Airbnb is still learning. Once day they may have it figured out, but I’d be surprised if when that day comes they don’t look a lot like the incucmbent players. In the mean time we are all paying for their training.

dustinmoris 8y ago

I can only echo that! We did an around-the-world trip for an entire year from 2017 to 2018 and did not use AirBnb a single time. We looked up AirBnb places maybe a handful of times only to find out that the quality and location of AirBnb homes was worse for often a more expensive price than a good hotel. We ended up booking everything via booking.com and hostelworld.com. Hotels were often cheaper, in better locations, had a better service (longer reception hours, etc.), often breakfast included, room service, other guests which we could connect with and most importantly, no creepy cameras!

jbverschoor 8y ago

Hotels are cheaper and more convnient for shorter stays anyway. Also the checkin process and key pickup is abominal sometimes

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
I think this one is pretty key. For the first couple years when AirBnB started, they were almost always cheaper than hotels, even for whole places. Of course, a lot of that was their fees were lower and they weren't paying taxes. I can almost find better deals at hotels now.

cc439 8y ago

This: "I've also noticed the quality of the places I've found on AirBnB has gone down." Is the direct result of people listening to your own own advice: "Don't rent out your home if you don't want the risk of people damaging it!" I rented my home a handful of times when I knew I would be out of town on the weekend. The first renters were great, the next 2 caused a combined $1,200 in damage that Airbnb refused to cover. Refunding me the cost of dry cleaning my comforter that was left with blood stains(!) instead of the cost to replace it was bullshit but that was all they'd offer. There was also no real recourse for one of the guests having at least a dozen people over for a midnight afterparty. I was still finding cigarette butts and trash out of my backyard landscaping for months after that final rental. There's just not enough money in Airbnb rentals for people who only have their own property to rent and don't desparately need that extra income, this the noticeable decline in quality. You're not the only person I've heard say that Airbnbs are becoming more like cheap motels than nice hotels.

jartelt 8y ago

I made the switch as well and now only get an AirBnB when traveling with a large group of friends to remote destinations. For my own travel, I got so sick of the problems with key access. It's just too hard to coordinate with most hosts when you are in a foreign country and don't have cell service or wi-fi. It's also super annoying when any number of other issues show up: spotty wi-fi, no cable TV, no soap or shampoo, poor quality mattress, etc. And then hosts often expect you to wash your dishes and put laundry in the washer. Why do I need to do this when I am paying >$100 for a "cleaning fee"???

SilasX 8y ago
>For my own travel, I got so sick of the problems with key access. It's just too hard to coordinate with most hosts when you are in a foreign country and don't have cell service or wi-fi. Yeah, in Spring two years ago a friend an I did a Europe trip, with 4 Airbnbs bookings in total. On three of them we had issues getting in, where we had to contact the host, who was hard to reach or unavailable. And none would give us separate keys. >And then hosts often expect you to wash your dishes and put laundry in the washer. Why do I need to do this when I am paying >$100 for a "cleaning fee"??? In fairness, cleaning involves a lot more than that step. But there does seem to be an arms race in how much of the cost they can cram into a hidden "cleaning" fee.
cryptonym 8y ago
I did AirBnB with a group. The place didn't had the beds advertised (I don't count defective inflatable mattress as bed) only 4 forks and 3 knives, the swimming pool was closed for 3 a months planned maintenance. The place had good ratings but from what I understood, the guy operating it had left and the new one was lost. To be fair, AirBnB gave me a $30 coupon. Thanks but I'm not using that one.
conanbatt 8y ago
Honestly dont get why Airbnb doesnt make /buy a lock mechanism and gives it to hosts. A simple key padlock suffices for 90% of the cases.
- 8y ago

DoubleGlazing 8y ago

Same here. A few years ago all our AirBnB experiences were good, but over time they have progressively got worse. For example, one host housed us in what felt like a derelict hotel/doshouse with all sorts of weird people staying and no working locks or fire alarm. On another occasion we booked a cottage, but it had a blocked chimney and was spewing fumes and smoke in to the living area. And for our tenth wedding anniversary we booked another cottage where the host insisted on staying with us despite the listing saying we would have the property to ourselves. He also insisted on singing to us against our will, this was actually quite creepy. We did of course raise concerns with AirBnB about the first two and left a negative review for the third. AirBnB did not care and crucially it did not seem to have an effect on the ratings of these properties. That just does not seem right. I no longer trust AirBnB. I don't trust the listings, I don't trust the reviews and I certainly don't trust AirBnB itself to filter out bad hosts. This could be because AirBnB has grown so fast and it has struggled to cope, or it could be a conscious business decision. Either way, we don't use them anymore.

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fyfy18 8y ago
I would have called Airbnb as soon as I found there was an issue and made them book me in somewhere else. You are paying a service fee to them for a reason.
- wlesieutre 8y ago
  They should have called the fire marshal. Airbnb support is probably one step up from Google's in terms of reaching a satisfactory solution for customers. The fire marshal won't get you your money back, but they'll ruin a host's day if they're renting out a space without smoke detectors.
  - DoubleGlazing 8y ago
    Oh we did, and the owner of the building ended up in the press for a multitude of reasons a few weeks after we had our stay.

Karunamon 8y ago

>It's funny to me, because AirBnB runs in to all the same problems we had with hotels a hundred years ago. To a point. I find it a bit silly to regulate a single person renting out their house occasionally for short stretches (read: most users of AirBnB) to a corporation with multiple purpose built, million dollar facilities on expensive commercial property with their own staff and so forth.

llampx 8y ago
I've been looking at AirBNBs recently for a vacation. The small guy is an outlier anymore. Most of the listings are obviously professional, ie they do it for a living and have multiple properties and property managers. The network is hard to unravel since the companies behind the "hosts" create many profiles, but it is easy to see that its not just Carla or Emily or Cody offering up their apartment while they go on holiday. I've been on AirBNB for more than 6 years and have hosted as well, but the rules as well as the standards have tilted heavily to favor the big players.
- trophycase 8y ago
  The last few AirBnBs I've stayed at have all been filled with "stock" goods. The cheapest handsoap, the cheapest paper towels, etc. Basically it looks like they went to the dollar store and filled their house with what's in it, which makes me believe that people don't actually live in there.
  - plusbryan 8y ago
    Unless AirBNB solicits more fine-grained reviews to elicit feedback on such things, or enacts a policy around consumables, this is the direction many hosts will go. As long as it doesn't reflect in the photos, corners will be cut.

batmansmk 8y ago

Airbnb should be liable one way or another of those situations. They should at least inspect the places before accepting them in the network. They should inspect after a complaint. I had a massive rat infestation in my Airbnb in Paris. I arrived at the place at night and I didn't see at first the forced temporary leave notice on the building door for all inhabitants. It took Airbnb 12h to respond to my emergency call. They didn't reimburse my first night, considering that I stayed and didn't allow me to review if I accepted the reimbursement of the rest of my booking. The wording was memorable "We contacted Thomas your host and he has agreed to ... ").

reaperducer 8y ago
They should at least inspect the places before accepting them in the network. They should inspect after a complaint. That requires people. Airbnb and its SV brethren aren't interested in using people to solve problems. They believe all problems can be solved with an algorithm. Except when it comes to faking AI.
- madamelic 8y ago
  x.ai isn't SV. ;) It's NYC.

jimmaswell 8y ago

How recent is lately? My experience a bit over one year ago was great. Likely highly dependent on the area.

sendshot 8y ago

AirBnB's aren't that great, just another service that has already been refined. In hotels you might not be getting what you pay for, but at least there is a level of consistency for major chains. In AirBnB's you're left to the wims of the household that sets you up for the night or week. If the place doesn't have something, most of the time you're not going to call the home owners, but a hotel you have no problem calling the main lobby if there is an issue at 2 am.

plusbryan 8y ago
Downsides aside, one thing that AirBnB as a service provides over hotels is heterogeneity of location. Especially remote, suburban, or certain urban neighborhood locations will always be underserved by hotels, while still being desirable to potential guests.
- sendshot 8y ago
  That is a big benefit, and I will be honest they have saved me from an expensive hotel at times, especially around packed conference areas. I just have had more bad experiences especially at those times, and would have in hindsight payed the higher rates at the hotels. Maybe this is just my rant, but the inconsistency and lack of some peoples awareness when it comes to hosting really puts me off.

tokyodude 8y ago

They did this in Japan. You're require to have an emergency sprinkler system for fires as just one example. If you don't have one, getting one installed is apparently around $20k so that prohibits lots of people from getting started renting out. Then as well they have to registered. If it's an apartment/condo building you have to get permission from the building management/home owners association. And I think it's max 90 days a year.

thisismyusernam 8y ago

Same is true for me. In my mid-to-late-twenties, I remember thinking "Damn, why are hotels so expensive? I'll just stay in this Airbnb, which is so much bigger anyway. This is the new way and it's disrupting hotels." Now at the outset of my thirties and a more settled phase of life, I will gladly pay a premium to stay in a hotel. In the same way, it's becoming more likely for me to flag a London black cab than book an Uber via the app. There's a reason why some business models and establishment types 'just work' throughout history and it's not entirely because of well-funded lobbying and conservative lawmaking, as we were maybe led to believe in the early Airbnb/Uber days when anything disruptive was shiny.

rchaud 8y ago
I wouldn't say they 'just work', but rather that what we see is the steady state they've arrived at, warts and all. The startup industry has this obsessive focus on looking at the steady state and thinking they can fix all the warts, without really looking into why they formed in the first place.
- smacktoward 8y ago
  SV has a Chesterton's Fence problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence
  - JadeNB 8y ago
    What is SV?
    - smacktoward 8y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley
  - rchaud 8y ago
    Good to know there's already been some prior thought on this topic.

rchaud 8y ago

> It's funny to me, because AirBnB runs in to all the same problems we had with hotels a hundred years ago. Every startup is banking on consumers forgetting this. "Hey, X is far too inefficient/expensive, you deserve Y". If the startup becomes a unicorn, it's never going to be long before they start following the same rules as the incumbents they toppled.