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>Many people, it seems clear, experience surveillance capitalism less as a prison, where their agency is restricted in a noxious way, than as an all-inclusive r

by ppod 8y ago

>Many people, it seems clear, experience surveillance capitalism less as a prison, where their agency is restricted in a noxious way, than as an all-inclusive resort, where their agency is restricted in a pleasing way. The possibility that a free, democratic publishing platform increases the agency of the average citizen is not permitted here.

stevenicr 8y ago
I like what you are pointing out here, however I think in what the quote is describing is true, in that google and facebook are censoring and moderating many things and increasing the visibility of engaging to the particular user things, is (unfortunately) restricting in a pleasing way. however I think what you are pointing out is important, and I'd like to think that we are educating people to question what they see and hear, and that if they were surfing the whole web of the world, not the censored google view or fbook view - they indeed they would be able to increase their agency and continue to do so in many ways, rather than being restricted to a particular prude groups view of what advertisers may be comfortable with.
blub 8y ago
The notion that any of those platforms is democratic is laughable. They are heavily censored for starters, among other things because they were cesspools of manipulation (hello election manipulation scandal!) and bullying/violence (hello Myanmar genocide!). They're also intentionally filtered at the behest of the owners themselves and tuned to elicit user dependence on the platform. Their cost is just hidden, they're not free. So this possibility is permitted for about 5s, the time required to think about it a bit and then reject it as totally unrealistic.
- ppod 8y ago
  >The notion that any of those platforms is democratic is laughable. They are democratic as publishing and research platforms because every citizen has equal access to them, subject only to a device and internet connection. Only 20 years ago, the ability to publish and spread an opinion was heavily restricted by your power and financial status. With the exception of countries with good public libraries (a small minority of the world) the same was true of libraries. You're comparing to a non-existent utopia, not actual universes that have ever existed anywhere.
speedplane 8y ago
> The possibility that a free, democratic publishing platform increases the agency of the average citizen is not permitted here. One day the trolls / bots / advertisers will find out that a lot of well paid influential engineers regularly read HN, and that will be the end of it.
MRD85 8y ago
I don't find surveillance affects my agency. My decisions on how to live aren't affected by whether I believe someone is watching me. I'll say this as clearly as I can: I like targetted advertising and I like these companies knowing things about me that I don't even know. The best example I can provide is my USB powered hand warmers. I do a lot of study at night and early mornings during winter. My desk is in a very large area and to keep my fingers warm enough to type I needed to warm the entire area. Facebook served me an add for USB powered hand warmers that now save me a significant amount on my power bill in the colder months. Disclaimer: 10 years in the military, where you have no rights. You sort of become accustomed to people wanting to control you.

by ppod 8y ago

stevenicr 8y ago

I like what you are pointing out here, however I think in what the quote is describing is true, in that google and facebook are censoring and moderating many things and increasing the visibility of engaging to the particular user things, is (unfortunately) restricting in a pleasing way. however I think what you are pointing out is important, and I'd like to think that we are educating people to question what they see and hear, and that if they were surfing the whole web of the world, not the censored google view or fbook view - they indeed they would be able to increase their agency and continue to do so in many ways, rather than being restricted to a particular prude groups view of what advertisers may be comfortable with.

blub 8y ago

The notion that any of those platforms is democratic is laughable. They are heavily censored for starters, among other things because they were cesspools of manipulation (hello election manipulation scandal!) and bullying/violence (hello Myanmar genocide!). They're also intentionally filtered at the behest of the owners themselves and tuned to elicit user dependence on the platform. Their cost is just hidden, they're not free. So this possibility is permitted for about 5s, the time required to think about it a bit and then reject it as totally unrealistic.

ppod 8y ago
>The notion that any of those platforms is democratic is laughable. They are democratic as publishing and research platforms because every citizen has equal access to them, subject only to a device and internet connection. Only 20 years ago, the ability to publish and spread an opinion was heavily restricted by your power and financial status. With the exception of countries with good public libraries (a small minority of the world) the same was true of libraries. You're comparing to a non-existent utopia, not actual universes that have ever existed anywhere.

speedplane 8y ago

> The possibility that a free, democratic publishing platform increases the agency of the average citizen is not permitted here. One day the trolls / bots / advertisers will find out that a lot of well paid influential engineers regularly read HN, and that will be the end of it.

MRD85 8y ago

I don't find surveillance affects my agency. My decisions on how to live aren't affected by whether I believe someone is watching me. I'll say this as clearly as I can: I like targetted advertising and I like these companies knowing things about me that I don't even know. The best example I can provide is my USB powered hand warmers. I do a lot of study at night and early mornings during winter. My desk is in a very large area and to keep my fingers warm enough to type I needed to warm the entire area. Facebook served me an add for USB powered hand warmers that now save me a significant amount on my power bill in the colder months. Disclaimer: 10 years in the military, where you have no rights. You sort of become accustomed to people wanting to control you.