4 ms·

No, the alternative is not a hard border. The alternative isnfor the UK and ireland to simply refuse to enforcr a hard border and dare the EU to do it if they

by stale2002 8y ago

No, the alternative is not a hard border. The alternative isnfor the UK and ireland to simply refuse to enforcr a hard border and dare the EU to do it if they are so upset about customs. What, is the EU going to station troops there, because of trade deals? Neither Ireland or the UK are interested in enforcing any sort of hard border. It is instead the EU who would become unhappy about broken trade deals.

derriz 8y ago
This seems to be the "magic" solution for all the logical inconsistencies of the brexit position - ignore the problem and pretend it will magically solve itself. Know of any other land borders between different customs regimes which take this approach?
umanwizard 8y ago
Ireland is part of the EU.
- lozenge 8y ago
  Ireland are not making plans for a hard border, even in the case of no deal.
Tomte 8y ago
> What, is the EU going to station troops there, because of trade deals? Hopefully yes. I don't want to eat some toxic food that nobody checked when it entered the EU.
- stale2002 8y ago
  If this happened then the EU would suffer the negative consequences of stationing troops there. IE, they would become the target of terrorist attacks. I doubt they would want this to happen to them.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
vkou 8y ago
> The alternative isnfor the UK and ireland to simply refuse to enforcr a hard border and dare the EU to do it if they are so upset about customs. I thought half the point of Brexit was so that the UK could secure it's borders. And they are just going to leave their biggest land border wide open?
tim333 8y ago
The EU would take legal action against Ireland to make them collect necessary tariffs.
- stale2002 8y ago
  At which point the EU gets the blame. Ireland would absolutely, under no circumstances, enforce a hard border. They would simply refused to do it.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> The alternative isnfor the UK and ireland to simply refuse to enforcr a hard border But that means Britain effectively has an open border with the EU (which Brexiters don't like, and probably some Remainers don't like in the context of Brexit though they are happy with it with UK a full member of the EU with a say in union policy), or has an internal border between NI and the rest of the UK (which pretty much no one in the UK likes.) The EU has a similar problem with Ireland where the UK has NI. Which is why this issue is intractable; it internally has no good solution on either side, even before the difficulty of getting agreement between the sides. This is worse on the UK side, because of the interaction with the Good Friday Accords; it's not just abstract political displeasure, it's potentially undermining an internal peace agreement.
- stale2002 8y ago
  > But that means Britain effectively has an open border with the EU The UK and Ireland do not want a hard border. That is a fact. They aren't going to enforce it. It is irelevant to point out the consequences, because both sides have stated that they will never ever ever enforce a hard border. The UK and Ireland would both be perfectly fine with not having a hard border. They have stated as such. You can call it dumb or say that it undermines the purpose of brexit, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Both Ireland and the UK are willing to accept the consequences of not having a hard border no matter the consequences.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > It is irelevant to point out the consequences It's pretty relevant, because the UK government doesn't have Parliamentary support for either of the alternatives, given Brexit, to the the thing they say they won't do, and also seems (though surprises are possible) to be likely to prevent Brexit from being derailed even if they can't pass a Brexit deal. So it's quite likely that we’re heading to a Brexit with none of the choices regarding the Irish border being politically viable.
    - stale2002 8y ago
rmc 8y ago
Brexit was sold as "Take back control of our borders" and "Limit Immigration". You're telling me the UK doesn't want border checks?!?

derriz 8y ago

This seems to be the "magic" solution for all the logical inconsistencies of the brexit position - ignore the problem and pretend it will magically solve itself. Know of any other land borders between different customs regimes which take this approach?

umanwizard 8y ago

Ireland is part of the EU.

lozenge 8y ago
Ireland are not making plans for a hard border, even in the case of no deal.

Tomte 8y ago

> What, is the EU going to station troops there, because of trade deals? Hopefully yes. I don't want to eat some toxic food that nobody checked when it entered the EU.

stale2002 8y ago
If this happened then the EU would suffer the negative consequences of stationing troops there. IE, they would become the target of terrorist attacks. I doubt they would want this to happen to them.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

vkou 8y ago

> The alternative isnfor the UK and ireland to simply refuse to enforcr a hard border and dare the EU to do it if they are so upset about customs. I thought half the point of Brexit was so that the UK could secure it's borders. And they are just going to leave their biggest land border wide open?

tim333 8y ago

The EU would take legal action against Ireland to make them collect necessary tariffs.

stale2002 8y ago
At which point the EU gets the blame. Ireland would absolutely, under no circumstances, enforce a hard border. They would simply refused to do it.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> The alternative isnfor the UK and ireland to simply refuse to enforcr a hard border But that means Britain effectively has an open border with the EU (which Brexiters don't like, and probably some Remainers don't like in the context of Brexit though they are happy with it with UK a full member of the EU with a say in union policy), or has an internal border between NI and the rest of the UK (which pretty much no one in the UK likes.) The EU has a similar problem with Ireland where the UK has NI. Which is why this issue is intractable; it internally has no good solution on either side, even before the difficulty of getting agreement between the sides. This is worse on the UK side, because of the interaction with the Good Friday Accords; it's not just abstract political displeasure, it's potentially undermining an internal peace agreement.

stale2002 8y ago
> But that means Britain effectively has an open border with the EU The UK and Ireland do not want a hard border. That is a fact. They aren't going to enforce it. It is irelevant to point out the consequences, because both sides have stated that they will never ever ever enforce a hard border. The UK and Ireland would both be perfectly fine with not having a hard border. They have stated as such. You can call it dumb or say that it undermines the purpose of brexit, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Both Ireland and the UK are willing to accept the consequences of not having a hard border no matter the consequences.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > It is irelevant to point out the consequences It's pretty relevant, because the UK government doesn't have Parliamentary support for either of the alternatives, given Brexit, to the the thing they say they won't do, and also seems (though surprises are possible) to be likely to prevent Brexit from being derailed even if they can't pass a Brexit deal. So it's quite likely that we’re heading to a Brexit with none of the choices regarding the Irish border being politically viable.
  - stale2002 8y ago

rmc 8y ago

Brexit was sold as "Take back control of our borders" and "Limit Immigration". You're telling me the UK doesn't want border checks?!?